World's first' fully-electric commercial flight takes off
|Paul Marsh||11/12/2019 20:30:06|
3786 forum posts
Not sure if anyone heard, but electric flight is now totally scale. First flight of a converted DH-2 Beaver with an electric power-plant
|Andy Ellis 1||11/12/2019 20:58:35|
|15 forum posts|
Fantastic achievement, but.. does it really reduce carbon emissions overall? I'd like to know how we produce enough electricity for widespread use of electric vehicles without producing carbon.
|Tom Sharp 2||11/12/2019 23:38:05|
3594 forum posts
JCB have just brought out a mini digger which is all electric.
|Simon Chaddock||11/12/2019 23:46:49|
5540 forum posts
I agree. Major changes to lifestyle and infrastructure are required to be even carbon neutral.
If the majority of energy comes from renewable the world will have to operate at a much lower rates in both creating and using the things that use electricity.
For instance can the world really withstand the effects of the current levels of mass travel or put another way humans are 'energy expensive' things to mechanically move around. They are even fairly energy costly just to maintain.
Now that's a cheery Christmas thought.
|Peter Miller||12/12/2019 08:35:55|
10407 forum posts
There have been several electric aircraft recently including a racing aircraft. But it isn't going to help one little bit!
Think about this:
The world population has doubled since 1976.
By now all the kids born then will be getting to be grandparents. and all their offspring want cars, heating, holidays abroard etc.
Now fully electric airliners might, just might, make a difference.
I think we should go back to sailing ships for global travel!!!
462 forum posts
I can not comment on the carbon footprint of making an IC engine and refining the fuel Vs making an electric motor and batteries. But what I do know having spent a lot of time working with industry in Vancouver and British Columbia is that with hydro, a lot of their electricity is low carbon, so in this case, yes it does work.
It is certainly not the first full scale electric aeroplane, the link states it is the first commercial one.
Regarding views held about generation of electricity, I believe that most people do not appreciate how much the balance has swung in the UK, there is now very little coal firing, some large stations have converted to biomass etc. See electric generation split at Ofgem generation data. This shows that the nuclear plus renewables is approximately 50% of the total UK generation now. What is also noticable on this is the reduction in electricity demand over the years, increases in efficiency and reductions in heavy industry.
Since 2018 the UK has been running for short periods of time without any coal firing, with runs of several weeks at a time being achieved, with the only use probably being peak winter demand. See UK no coal days.
Edited By PeterF on 12/12/2019 09:19:41
|Don Fry||12/12/2019 09:29:19|
4297 forum posts
Yea Peter, but how clever is it to convert coal fired stations, to biomass fired stations, and then ship the biomass from the Americas. And continue to use a technology, nuclear fission reactors, where after 50 years still haven't worked out how to depose of the waste products, or stop them blowing up for that matter. And the UK has a fairly fragile grid system thanks to reliance on non constant energy supply systems, which resulted to large scale power cuts last winter.
Nice plane though. Might work, it's one of those short hop tourist flight things is it not. Might still question if it's a good idea to fly at all.
|J D 8||12/12/2019 09:42:56|
1341 forum posts
We have no coal days but that is because much of our industry has been exported to China where massive new coal burning stations are coming on line every year.
|Frank Skilbeck||12/12/2019 09:48:38|
4554 forum posts
The UK grid isn't fragile because of non-constant energy supplies, it's more that renewables especially wind are situated where the grid infrastructure is limited, there are plans to upgrade the grid to take this into account.
One of the reasons wind turbines are often stopped in windy conditions is hat they produce too much electricity and could overload the grid locally.
As for these electric planes, it seems to make sense for these shorthaul flights in this area. They are not just tourist flights but a quick way to get to relatively remote locations, so quite useful for the local communities.
|Don Fry||12/12/2019 10:54:32|
4297 forum posts
Frank, a power generating system is built, surely, with and infrastructure to supply power to where needed, not with plans to connect it when someone gets round to it or supplies the budget to do it.
|Chris Walby||12/12/2019 12:35:55|
1054 forum posts
Current status of G.B.
Don't all put your kettles on at once!
Edited By Chris Walby on 12/12/2019 12:37:08
|124 forum posts|
Wonder if they use regen braking through the prop on the descent to recover some energy back into the batteries? Works a treat on my Leaf.
Onwards and now upwards!
|Nigel R||12/12/2019 14:26:16|
3314 forum posts
I would say getting everything possible on to electric makes our situation less worse.
Full scale Airplanes are not the ideal end user of electric power. Although you can expect mixed mode power being introduced as an answer to noise issues at take off.
|Frank Skilbeck||12/12/2019 15:05:59|
4554 forum posts
Agree, but you stated that the grid was fragile because of the non constant supply systems, it's not, it's because the power is being put in somewhere else. The main reason they are building new nuclear power stations next to old ones is so they can use the same connection. To take advantage of wind power we need to upgrade the grid to those areas to tap into that. We had to do it with nuclear because they are all by the coast to use seawater for cooling, just a shame they picked the wrong piece of coast for the best use of offshore wind turbines.
BTW anybody more interested in the electric DHC Beaver there's another video here
|Piers Bowlan||12/12/2019 17:16:33|
1952 forum posts
An interesting video about electric aircraft developments.
|Paul Marsh||12/12/2019 17:45:50|
3786 forum posts
As I've said on another thread, imagine plugging 26 million cars into the National Grid, where it's already on its near max, talk about burying the needle!!!
Electric cars won't work, period, there is not enough reserve to meet the demand.
|Bob Cotsford||12/12/2019 17:57:44|
8132 forum posts
so let's keep burning fossil fuels until - what? Until it's too late to start working towards better solutions? Nobody is denying that we are just starting down a road that may just possibly improve things for our Grandchildren. As a great man once said " why dont you knock it off with those negative waves moriarty ? "
|Frank Skilbeck||12/12/2019 23:27:58|
4554 forum posts
There's a "spare" 15 GW of power generation available each night for around 6 hours, this works out at around 85 miles per car per day, assuming 26 million cars.
|Don Fry||13/12/2019 09:15:07|
4297 forum posts
Frank, is that 26 million 2 ton SUVs, or the half ton cars we should be developing?
Returning to the tread, the nice Beaver pictured at the top of the page gets aloft on 65? horse, with the pilot reporting he was backing off.
Edited By Don Fry on 13/12/2019 09:17:48
|122 forum posts|
I thought it would be fun to apply the same methods we use for evaluating electric power trains to the full size version. Unfortunately the Magnix product pages do not provide details for battery and speed controller to go with the motor. A few bits however.
Motor and drive electronics are liquid cooled. The magni500 has a power rating of 560kW and nominal voltage of 540V, implying peak current exceeds 1000A - that would get hot!
Propeller bolts direct to the rotor, so no gearbox, with a base speed of 1900 RPM.
It seems Magnix are taking the one big motor, not multiple small motors, path.
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