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Can Superphatic glue go off?

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Mike Freeman12/01/2020 08:56:57
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87 forum posts
65 photos

I'm just about to start a new traditional build but I see my relatively new bottle of Superphatic glue has lost its usual yellow hue and gone a dirty brown colour!!disgustI've tried it on some scrap balsa and it seems to give a good joint but I'm wondering, if used, the joints will stay good?

Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

Cheers

Mike

Tim Ballinger12/01/2020 09:28:18
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778 forum posts
283 photos

Yes, but only after it has been standing for a long time with a modelling pin in the nozzle. Looked like the pin rusting to me.

Tim

Peter Miller12/01/2020 09:33:25
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10953 forum posts
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10 articles

They reccomend keeping Superglue in the refridgerator to stop kit going off.

Martin_K12/01/2020 09:34:32
150 forum posts

Mike, Do you mean Deluxe Materials Super 'Phatic? Mine started off white, and still is after many months in a part used bottle.

Their Aliphatic Resin is yellow. My even longer part used bottle of that looks an unchanged yellow to me.

Simon Ward 212/01/2020 09:43:04
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38 forum posts
205 photos

Hi Mike, yes this has happened to me, with my current bottle of Superphatic. As Peter mentioned, I'm sure that heat has been the reason for the discolouration. I tried the glue on a few test pieces of balsa and to be honest, couldn't really tell if there was any difference in the final bond, felt pretty good to me. Setting times were the same too. So I'm still using the glue on my Sabre build, but mainly using it on low stress components, that need a fast grab, not too keen on using Superglue!! Most of the glue I use these days is either, balsa cement or Titebond, which I find works very well.

Hope this helps.

Simon.

Peter Miller12/01/2020 09:58:15
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10953 forum posts
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10 articles

Sorry!!! I got mixed up.

CA superglue should be stored in the fridge.

Don't know about Superphatic

Mike Freeman12/01/2020 10:10:16
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87 forum posts
65 photos

Thanks for the replies.

Here is a photo for info. The bottle on the left is quite old and looks normal. The other looks decidedly off!!

p1120947.jpg

I haven't used a pin in the nozzle so I don't think its rust. I'll most likely start my build with the older, normal looking, bottle and think about using the dodgy looking one if I run out. I've been using Deluxe Materials Aliphatic and Superphatic for years and love the stuff but never seen this before!!

Cheers

Mike

Lima Hotel Foxtrot12/01/2020 10:30:36
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382 forum posts

Have you tried contacting Deluxe themselves and getting a definitive response from the horses mouth?

alex nicol12/01/2020 11:10:34
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359 forum posts
15 photos

For what it's worth, I'd say if you've tested it and if you're still not confident the only real answer is bin it. Then you have to live with the "have I just binned a fully serviceable item" doubt ( Better that than finding out the hard way that it had gone off)

McG 696912/01/2020 12:02:55
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3167 forum posts
1198 photos

Hi all,

I'm also a big Deluxe products fan, using both their Aliphatic and Superphatic glues.

I had the same discoloration with my last bottle of Superphatic, although not as 'dark' as on the posted pic.

Same as Simon W2, I tested it with no noticeable alteration of it's characteristics.

It might just be the influence of 'light'. Photons are notorious for changing the characteristics of a lot of products, especially their appearance or colour.

Since then, I keep all my glues in a closed carton box or in the fridge for the 'new' stock.

Asking Deluxe themselves might be the best way to resolve the mystery...

Cheers

Chris

kc12/01/2020 13:09:14
6421 forum posts
173 photos

The real way to know if any glue is any good is to try test pieces of scrap wood and then test to destruction- i.e. pull it apart and see if the wood fibres give way before the glue parts. With a good PVA such as Resin W ( now called Evostik wood glue ) the wood fibres give way first-even beech or any softwood, most hardwoods certainly balsa. Of course allow sufficient drying time (24 hours or more) and use clean dry wood and clamping. Do several small samples whilst you are at it and try tight clamping, loose clamping or not clamped to see what the effect is. If you have any cheap PVA such as sold at supermarkets try that too and you will likely see the glue fails and it's best to throw away before it catches you out. Resin W has never failed my tests and the wood fibres always part before the glue itself.

Whilst testing Superphatic and PVA it would be good to try identical samples also with cyano, balsa cement,epoxy or 5 min epoxy to see how they compare.

George P.12/01/2020 14:05:24
62 forum posts
21 photos

I had a bottle go like that once. It only had about a quarter left and it had been sitting in the workshop for some time. I decided to just throw it and get a new bottle as it is relatively cheap compared to all the other stuff I end up buying. It was just about peace of mind for me.

I like the Delux Materials Superphatic and Aliphatic glues but I have never used Titebond. Is it the same thing or is it meant to be a stronger glue?

Mastercrashman13/01/2020 16:44:26
63 forum posts
5 photos

Mike, I had an unopened bottle of Superphatic that had been in a drawer for some months. The glue had turned a buff colour inside the shoulders of the bottle.

I contacted Deluxe and queried this but didn't get a reply.

I ordered an item from Phoenix Models and had to email them so I also asked Stan Yeo, at Phoenix, whether he'd ever come across this. (I didn't purchase the Superphatic from Phoenix Models). Always so helpful, Stan emailed me the following:

I occasionally use Superphatic but not very often so my bottle lies around for ages and yes it does go brown around the edges. This does not mean it has been exposed to frost as mine has not.

Several months ago I did speak to John Bristow the owner and designer of DeLuxe Material products about the 'discolouration' of Superphatic and was told a colouring pigment had been added to the glue to mimic the colour of balsa wood. Whilst some balsa may be that colour but the wood we use is predominantly white and it leaves an ugly stain. My assumption then it is the pigment aging that causes the glue to go brown.

I have used the glue since and haven't had any problems.

Andrew Calcutt13/01/2020 16:53:36
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52 forum posts
1 photos

You can buy aliphatic at toolstation,screw fix or wickes,get gorilla white glue.Also titebond is aliphatic.

Mike T13/01/2020 18:01:15
489 forum posts
37 photos
Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 12/01/2020 10:30:36:

Have you tried contacting Deluxe themselves and getting a definitive response from the horses mouth?

You mean, get FACTS from EXPERTS?

I don't think you've grasped how internet forums work. There are several more pages of fruitless speculation to be gone through first... devil

Don Fry13/01/2020 18:39:18
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4557 forum posts
54 photos

I like this glue, but just don't use much. My bottle, 1/3 full is much the same colour as Mike Freeman's. It a couple of years old, stored in a cool dim room

I last used it, just before Christmas, non model related, high stress joint. I can relate the joint has not failed. I have not done a formal stress analysis, but the joints, to stop some lightweight, artistic, flimsy, antique chairs from racking are a hard test on a glue. I for one, would not worry on a model aircraft.

Keith Miles 213/01/2020 19:43:53
303 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Mike T on 13/01/2020 18:01:15:
Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 12/01/2020 10:30:36:

Have you tried contacting Deluxe themselves and getting a definitive response from the horses mouth?

You mean, get FACTS from EXPERTS?

I don't think you've grasped how internet forums work. There are several more pages of fruitless speculation to be gone through first... devil

Maybe some people are averse to asking those who have a vested interest in promoting their products?

Maybe they just prefer to do a little “market” research first?

Mike Freeman14/01/2020 10:13:08
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87 forum posts
65 photos

Spot on Keith!

My initial question to fellow forumites was "Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?" and I certainly haven't found the responses fruitless speculation!! On the contrary, they have been very informative. yes

I suppose I could of gone straight to Deluxe Materials and asked them but where is the fun and education in that!?!?

It looks like others have experienced the same so I have emailed Deluxe Materials and here is their reply...

"Sadly I'm familiar with this issue.We had a small batch contaminated sadly and recalled as much stock as we could.

Product itself it does work the same way its strength and performance were not compromised just its colour.

Glue will work as well as the old one."

So it appears I had a bottle that slipped through the net!! Deluxe Materials went on to say if I wasn't entirely happy they would send a replacement.... Two bottles are now winging their way to me! That's great customer service!!

So, what have we learned....

  1. Lots of people like Deluxe Material's Superphatic Resin
  2. Discolouration can occur but doesn't effect the performance of the glue
  3. Deluxe Materials stand by their products and look after their customers
  4. To some people the end result is all that matters, getting there doesn't matter. I hope, for their partners sake, they don't apply the same logic to other aspects of life! surprise
Keith Miles 214/01/2020 11:23:58
303 forum posts
6 photos

Mike Freeman,

Sounds like a result!

Well done them.

Plummet14/01/2020 11:50:14
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1418 forum posts
41 photos

Re. an early comment about putting the glue in the fridge ...

The SuperPhatic glue bottle does say "Do not freeze" on the label. so the fridge would be a bad idea.

Yes I do know that the post was retracted. as the advice was for CA glues.

Plummet

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