2097 forum posts
I can see your point Allan, but that's not really comparing apples with apples. Your 30 year old Futaba was almost certainly not a digital 2.4GHz TX, but an analog 35MHz predecessor. None of them had upgradeable software on the RF side (or the TX OS for that matter), and it was a completely different regulatory environment too re:RF. Remember that whilst FrSky are the people making the change this time, every manufacturer of 2.4GHz gear out there today has utilised multiple protocols over the years and required users to upgrade their hardware or (worse) orphaned it for new, sometimes explicitly, sometimes by stealth (i.e. Futaba and FASST). I agree this is poorly communicated by FrSky though (as always, it is their achilles heel and does not seem to be improving).
I agree. Based on the info so far I don't see any need to upgrade - far easier to flash any new RXs back to the old firmware than reflash everything else I already own (I already flash all new RXs anyway as I run the FCC rather than LBT firmware).
Edited By MattyB on 17/01/2020 13:29:17
|Steve J||17/01/2020 14:21:46|
1972 forum posts
My 2009 JR DSX9 works fine with new Spekkie receivers .
2097 forum posts
I'm sure it does, but it's a matter of record that Spektrum have orphaned DSM (I believe that was purely because it had been criticised for low reliability) and DSM2 (because it no longer complied to current EU regs). I don't think there is a manufacturer out there who hasn't got something like that in their 2.4GHz implementation history at this point.
Edited By MattyB on 17/01/2020 15:15:56
|Peter Christy||17/01/2020 15:43:12|
|1829 forum posts|
I, too, still have my original DSX-9 and its still giving sterling service. However, it doesn't have telemetry - which may or may not be a good thing - and it isn't upgradeable. Neither are the receivers.
At least the FrSky is upgradeable, and relatively easily at that. And whilst they may not be the most communicative, they do seem to react quickly to any problems that occur.
From reading a translation of the German website, it appears that most of the issues have occurred in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, countries that share a lot of common borders and geography. They are also - I suspect - countries that are more eco-friendly than many others, with a larger percentage of electric flyers. This probably means that many clubs operate closer to civilisation and potential sources of interference than is common in the UK. Lets face it, most of us fly way out in the sticks!
For that reason, I suspect that the issue is not as pressing here as it may be in other countries.
Having said that, I probably will upgrade, but not immediately. I learned long ago, never to use "Vers-1.0" of any software. Always wait for at least the first bugfix!
One or two of my models have rather inaccessible receivers (the downside of scale foamies!), which is an active discouragement! Also, a lot of my models are still on D8, and I want to be sure that this upgrade won't remove that protocol from my transmitters before upgrading!
|Robert Welford||17/01/2020 15:44:07|
|204 forum posts|
Not Multiplex 2.4GHz M-link
|Frank Skilbeck||17/01/2020 17:18:30|
4749 forum posts
Not quite MPX did one RF firmware update, but it didn't require any Rx updates only a rebind.
1380 forum posts
Oh how I long for those past times when you bought a Tx and Rx plus additional Rx and just kept on using. Now it seems a constant treadmill of chasing ones own backside updating firmware. Its become a hobby in its own right.
1380 forum posts
Well I'm in a bit of quandary. Got an early Taranis on an early OpenTx which needs to be updated to work a multi protocol Tx plug in module, the module also needs to be brought up to the latest spec. The module has various useful protocols including LBT (required for my Meteor65 SE indoor FPV quad). Also got a new Jumper T16 running OpenTx with an internal multi protocol Tx board, both of which need updating as I seem to have a problem on set up, AETR and mode 2 selected swaps aileron and rudder on Rx outputs.. I was aiming to get them all up to the same spec before using. For all other use I only run RoW RF on FrSky not LBT. I have many D series Rx and X series Rx which I don't want to loose the use of or go through the considerable trouble of re flashing. Plus, I have 'D' TX modules for my Futaba Tx's and a spare 'X' external module for the Taranis. I need to retain compatibility throughout. I've been to the OpenTx site and read the publication dated 15/1/20 but, is the problem just with the Tx operating system, or with the RF system as well? Looks like I've chosen the wrong time to get new bits and update. I'm drowning in update options. I could just sit back and hopefully let things sort themselves out and get a clearer picture but I've got itchy fingers. As I know the Taranis etc all works I'm thinking I'll start with the Jumper T16 due to its odd channel behaviour and work on logically from there. Unless anyone has a better idea. Is there any further info and whether updating affects earlier protocols?
|Mike Blandford||17/01/2020 22:56:50|
645 forum posts
The update from FrSky,, which this thread is really about, only affects the RF modules and receivers.
The X8R will not bind in D8 mode, even though linking channels 7&8 and powering it on does start it in bind mode.
If you update a module, it will only bind to an updated receiver, and vice versa.
The multi-protocol module will not bind to an updated receiver (yet!).
|buster prop||18/01/2020 08:03:05|
|499 forum posts|
Reading this makes my brain hurt. Think I'll stay with Spektrum (DSMX), it just works and has been reliable. All I want to do is fly my planes, don't need all that hassle.
|Tim Ballinger||18/01/2020 08:57:06|
796 forum posts
I see all the Rx’s and Tx’s on the site still list all the previous firmware as well as this latest update and just to be safe I have all the relevant Rx ‘old’ firmware files downloaded just in case I need them.
At some point I will inevitably want to upgrade the Tx firmware to take advantage of any updated features that I might find useful ( Bug fix notwithstanding, that is after all one of the benefits of being able to install new firmware) , at that point assuming all has settled down to my satisfaction I will upgrade the Rx’s.
|Peter Christy||18/01/2020 10:22:23|
|1829 forum posts|
Thanks for the update, Mike!
That's a pain, stopping X series receivers binding in D8 mode! I've got at least one set up like that, so that I can fly it with my single-stick Tx, using a "hack" module. Of course, if FrSky brought out a D16 hack module, it would solve all my problems, but I suspect that if they were going to, we would have seen it by now!
I wonder how long they'll keep producing D-series receivers....
|Allan Bennett||18/01/2020 11:57:52|
|1700 forum posts|
True, I'm really just moaning that in the past we never needed to upgrade anything -- it just worked first time out of the box, and kept on working. Maybe I exaggerated the age of my Futaba slightly (can't remember when I bought it), it has both 35MHz synthesised and 2.4GHz modules, and still works with my remaining couple of 35MHz and FASST receivers.
A lot of the 'upgrades' are for regulatory reasons (e.g. EU LBT), but I wonder how many are because manufacturers have released equipment that hasn't been adequately tested in a real-world environment.
|1549 forum posts|
I think you are being very optimistic to believe manufacturers could possibly test every conceivable situation in the real world. I've had no end of updates with all sorts of equipment. Cars for example, nearly every car I've had in the last 10 years has had a software update. My year old Ford Transit motorhome went in for an update last month. Think how many Transits they sell a year.
The point of the Frsky system and OpenTX is its flexibility, and with that comes the drawback of needing updates. No different to cars, smartphones, computers or even smart TVs. Its only in real world use and feedback to the designers that we have the quality of the kit we have now at a price we can afford.
There are ways to mitigate some of the inconvenience. A simple one is to have an S Port lead permanently connected to each receiver. That way receiver updates are very simple no matter how deep the receiver is buried.
Another one is to standardise. One poster above has created a nightmare of different configurations with multiple different transmitters. With a 60 model memory one only needs one transmitter, and possibly a backup. Keep to your own standardisation of receivers by deciding which types will cover your modelling needs. I've tended to sell off the occasional odd one I bought, fleabay makes that easy, and someone is always prepared to pay over the odds. I've also sold of a couple of Frsky transmitters already.
Thirdly, keeps the system up to date. By this I don't mean update the first day an update comes out, but once its settled down, then update. (OpenTX 2.3 is a good example here). That way updating is straightforward, as there is usually plenty of current info on the web, and plenty of others around who have just done it to help. But try updating from a very old version and most have forgotten what they did so help is sparce. Winter time can be utilised to perform major updates that require quite a bit of work.
Lastly, update everything, don't leave some receivers on old firmware and then when you dust the model off months later wonder why the receiver won't work any more.
|Mike Blandford||18/01/2020 20:37:47|
645 forum posts
I've seen reports that early Taranis transmitters (not plus) do not work with this module update. I can confirm that my prototype Taranis does not work, it binds OK but operation fails with the green LED on the Rx flashing occasionally and servos moving intermittently.
|Allan Bennett||18/01/2020 21:16:46|
|1700 forum posts|
Oh dear, I am living in the past! My car is almost as old as my transmitter (well, 15 years), and has never had a recall or an update, or a breakdown. It's going to be a shock when I have to buy a new one
|Tony Richardson||18/01/2020 22:06:45|
643 forum posts
Well being the distrustful beggar I am I'm doing nothing at the moment, the lack of information about why makes me wonder - me being not very computer literate or web wise - if this is maybe a spoof or site hack of some sort? I have been flying with a Taranis X9D and Horus for a lot of years now and never experienced any of these anomalies so for me its going to be carry on as before.
|Martin Harris||18/01/2020 23:45:08|
9399 forum posts
I can't really comment on FrSky but my own system has had a number of software upgrades, largely due to the maker taking on board feedback and suggestions from users. Since buying a dedicated transmitter in 2013 to replace my previous module based setup, it has had major upgrades in both functionality and performance. While I could still be operating happily on the original firmware which functioned faultlessly and offered wide ranging functions I would have missed out on so many great features and improvements.
7 years after buying the transmitter, I have what, in pre-upgradable equipment days, would represent a new transmitter with many enhanced and new features, half as many channels again and LUA functionality - all at no cost! I'm also fortunate that all my receivers, some dating back to 2009, still function perfectly with the system - something my manufacturer has taken care to ensure throughout the process.
While Pete's advice to hold back and let others take the pain of early adoption is very sound in general, the relatively small RC community along with many informed users means that problems are likely to be picked up quickly and communicated so upgrading is normally safe with only a small waiting time should you be wary of your manufacturer's software testing capabilities.
|176 forum posts||
I am reading about this as an ex computer networks person, not as a FrSky user. Data networks require an error detection mechanism.
My understanding - A bug has been found in FrSky RF transmission error detection that normally has only a momentary effect on one or two channels, so is barely noticeable. However, it can sometimes delay program execution in the RX for long enough to cause a loss of control. The understanding of the problem is consistent with a higher incidence reported in Europe, using LBT firmware.
The fact that any one user has not previously experienced this does not mean it is less likely to happen to them in future.
|John Privett||19/01/2020 12:02:02|
6059 forum posts
Martin - yes, that's what I got out of the (translation of) that German forum article too. The problem is a rare occurence that affects the European LBT firmware more than the global firmware which Tony R. will almost certainly be using over in Canada.
For me - Taranis user for several years, Horus X10 user for nearly 2 years - and having used the LBT firmware since before I even got the Horus, I will update. But not today!
The issue mentioned is not one that I've ever personally noticed, but I will update anyway. I'll probably do so in the next week or two, but early enough in the week that any delays don't affect my weekend flying!
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