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FrSky Major Update for most TX and RX

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GONZO19/01/2020 12:47:12
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Mike B

Interesting what you found with early Taranis. My Taranis is pre plus. It is the one just after the initial model. So, I surmise from this discovery that updating more than likely becomes a non starter. Even more so as I don't use EU LBT and don't want to. The more who use LBT the more, RF speaking, they'll make way for my transmissions.

Martin_K,

From my quick scans of the other forums it does seem to be related to LBT(correction from those who know better welcomed). A phrase used to describe LBT I saw in the past likened it thus, 'a mutual and polite degradation of service for users as band usage increases'. Unfortunately in a real time active situation like model flying you can't afford too much degradation of service. Could the FrSky users on the continent be generally operating in areas of greater band traffic/usage(near urban areas) and thus suffering this 'degradation of service'(increased skipped data transmission due to more busy frequency slots) resulting in this deficiency in error detection becoming noticeable? Or, is the up date to the servos position slowing down to such an extent that a momentary 'failsafe' is occurring that would look like a spurious position command? Additionally, I would guess that not all the other band traffic(non RC) is LBT. Due to our 'anti social' status in the UK we generally fly in out of the way locations. Have there been any reports of this problem here? IMO this makes a good argument for users who can to remain non LBT.

As a general observation FrSky, to my mind, seems to be using this as an 'opportunistic' way of implementing a degree of obsolescence to complement their brand 'lock in' by way of 'ACCESS' thereby enhancing their commercial position.

Don Fry19/01/2020 13:10:34
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My experience of continental flying is the sites are as remote as the UK. I also reckon that fuel motors and particularly 2 strokes, are more common. Noise regulations generally are more lenient, but the clubs still just keep out of the way. Just easier to operate with some space, and Europe as a whole, has far lower population density than the UK.

I do echo your yearning for radio sets that stayed the same Gonzo. Read the instructions, end of learning curve for that set.

GONZO19/01/2020 13:37:43
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1352 forum posts
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Don, the epicenter for this issue seems to be Germany. Does your experience of flying site stretch to there? Is there something specific to Germany?

Ah, nostalgia is not what it used to be. Or, in my case it is. That's why I still have and use my Futaba FF8, FF9 and super along with my T12FG all on FASST. Occasionally my Futaba FP-T5LK(modified) with plug in RF boards for 27mHz/35mHz/40mHz and switchable 2.4gHz 'hack' FrSky module, dating back to the early 80's, gets an outing. I still have my original Futaba Digimax 4(mid 70's) on 27mHz in working order. Just can't throw stuff away or sell it. Call me Steptoe!

Don Fry19/01/2020 14:50:41
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Only experience of 2 sites in Germany. One in the Ruhr valley, that's a populous area. Site was a mile outside a village. Other site was Munich area. Eight to 10 miles outside the city, two miles from a town, rural looking.

When I say they are similar to the UK, I mean it. All sites across Europe seem to have a common layout. Parking, pits, 40 yards safety space, pilot box, runway, dead area in front. I haven't come across a site over here with shared access to the dead area, i.e. The club uses the site, and can crash in safety.

Read the BFMA handbook, and translate as necessary.

Lots of very serious obsessive engineers in Germany?

Tony Richardson19/01/2020 20:33:18
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Maybe I should clarify my thinking on this, I do not mean the Open Tx system itself has been compromised, my concern is that the need for an upgrade may be a spoof planted on FrSky website for whatever reason what I am asking is, is the original source totally reliable? the lack of information on the FrSky site as to why and how to proceed is what makes me suspicious..

As John P says my protocol here is a little different to yours on that side of the Atlantic and that may well be where the issue is rooted, I know I am a cranky 71 year old but my suspicions have held me in good stead so far as I said before I shall carry on as before, if and or when I am sure it is a problem I will certainly upgrade. Just my humble opinion..

Tony..

Mike Blandford19/01/2020 22:24:29
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The problem was noticed first in Germany, although when it was described some people in other parts of the world realised they observed the same problem. One person in Germany did extensive testing on the bench, and managed to create the problem in controlled conditions repeatedly. FrSky have been working on a fix for a while.

The original "D" protocol used a CRC built in to the RF chips, but, for some unknown reason, the "X" protocol didn't use this, and the software CRC check used apparantly missed some errors.

Mike

David Holland 220/01/2020 20:19:43
203 forum posts
25 photos

Gents, I have mentioned recently that I am a convert to FrSky, having bought a Horus X10 Express a few months ago. I am using FrOs and have now just about got the measure of it and am thoroughly enjoying using it. This update issue has me in a mild panic, the FrSky website lists the transmitters and modules affected but it specifically says "not Horus x10 Express" and does not mention the ISRM-S-X10 internal module as needing an update. Soooo....can I assume that my transmitter is ok? But how about receivers, I'm using mostly RX6Rs with ACCESS and a couple of S8Rs with D16. My head hurts and I will have to master "flashing" my Rx's which prospect fills me with dread. Thanks,

David

Tim Ballinger20/01/2020 20:49:34
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678 forum posts
274 photos

David,

Many users are trying to get their heads round the implications for the many permutations of Frsky kit so you are not alone.

Mike Blandford , is our resident guru and is generally quick to correct us when we go wrong

However as I understand it.

Frsky has not yet released the firmware upgrades for the ACCESS protocol radios such as your x10 Express, so you can do nothing yet. the ISRM module is however expected to need this upgrade so you will more than likely feel the pain in due course. ( I have only quickly scanned the RC groups forum but there seem to compatibility issues with several flavours of the Taranis radios too.)

For the moment do nothing especially do not try upgrading rxrs until your specific Tx upgrade is released or you will end up with a mismatch that will not work.

Perhaps not surprisingly I see several users on RC groups now suspecting they have experienced the actual issues that are being addressed by these upgrades and are a little agitated.

For my part my horus X10 and Rx series Rxs all have firmware upgrades released and while not actually doing anything yet I am preparing for the inevitable.

For my part I am a little confused as to why there is a separate firmware upgrade file for the IXJT module as I thought the internal RF module on the HORUS could only be updated with the Fros firmware update. Perhaps the IJXT firmware is actually for the external module?

Can Anyone put me right here ?

Tim

Andy4820/01/2020 20:52:53
1414 forum posts
5 photos

Tim

Thanks to Mike's efforts it is now possible to update the internal module using the bootloader with OpenTX version 2.3. Thus it is no longer necessary to reinstall FrOS.

Tim Ballinger20/01/2020 21:27:46
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678 forum posts
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Andy,

Thanks for that. Since I am still using FrOS its the OS update for me and ignore the specific IXJT firmware update .

Tim

Martin McIntosh20/01/2020 21:30:42
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I give up on Taranis. Great range, solid contact with the model maybe but it is just too complex for me. To set up a new model requires a lot of patience and it is too easy to get things wrong. Mine is on global so that, I am told, it will work with any of their Rx`s including D8 and X8 which it does. I have a Tx module to fit an old PCM 9X set so shall keep a couple or so Rx`s but the rest will be up for sale soon. LBT strikes me as a problem waiting to happen. What if the band is full? Give me DSM2 any day.

Andy4820/01/2020 22:40:15
1414 forum posts
5 photos

The LBT version will work with D8 and X series receivers no problem. Don't understand why you believe LBT is a problem waiting to happen.

As for when the band is full, surely that would affect any transmitter, however I read somewhere that over 100 helicopters were flown together on 2.4Ghz. DSM2 only listens once when switched on and is therefore more prone to problems when the band is busy than LBT or DSMX transmitters.

As for Spektrum kit, nearly every regular flyer at our club has changed away from it having had numerous radio failures. That's why I changed. I lost 3 aircraft in 2 weeks in very similar circumstances. Never had a problem since moving to Frsky stuff.

Martin McIntosh21/01/2020 10:17:09
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3085 forum posts
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Mine was reprogrammed by the local guru. Probably so that it would function with any later Rx`s I may have bought rather than D or X. That was quite some time ago so do not really remember.

DSM 2 grabs and hogs a couple of frequencies which is why the EU dislikes it.

Mine are JR. I would agree that the Spektrum versions are more than a little suspect and would not touch one.

Mike Blandford25/01/2020 16:11:02
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575 forum posts
22 photos

I've posted some technical information here: **LINK**

as to why this update is being done.

Martin: Have you tried erskyTx firmware on the Taranis, many people find it easier to use than openTx, while still providing the benefits of flexibility.

Mike

Tim Ballinger25/01/2020 16:37:40
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678 forum posts
274 photos

Mike ,

Many thanks for the update. Two Questions if I may. From what I have read this issue is not directly connected to the LBT feature or is it? Presumably the packet validation check does not fail each and every time there is some interference on the Tx/ Rx as that would presumably not be a rare occurrence or does it?

The RC group chat seems full of reports of hardware incompatibility issues with the latest firmware that makes most of us reluctant to implement the upgrade atm. Are we right to be waiting? ( yep that’s 3 questions)

Tim.

Edited By Tim Ballinger on 25/01/2020 16:38:23

Martin McIntosh25/01/2020 17:29:50
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3085 forum posts
1119 photos

Mike, not heard of ersky, did you mean flysky? I have 6 and 10 ch system on this and they seem very solid but there is a problem with the 10ch in that the rates are 3 position and the s/w to drive them is for 2 position. Cannot get the Tx to talk to my laptop to reload it.

Very reluctant to sell the FrSky because it is just so solid.

Mike Blandford25/01/2020 20:06:35
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575 forum posts
22 photos

Tim: It seems the LBT version is more prone to this problem, but it does affect both LBT and International.
Most of the time the CRC check picks up transmission errors. One thing FrSky did between the original 'D' protocol and the 'X' protocol is stop using the hardware CRC check available in the RF chip. This has been enable in the fix.

Yes there are some problems with this update, I think they have rushed it out, but don't have enough older hardware to test all combinations. I expect this update to be improved quite soon. However, provided you have copies of the current module and Rx firmware (so you could revert if needed), if you do update, the control link either works, or it doesn't. If it works it keeps working.

Martin: I definitely mean erskyTx firmware for the Taranis. Quick history: originally there was TH9X firmware for the Flysky 9x transmitter. This was followed by er9x firmware for that Tx. Then an upgrade board (call a SKY board) was made for the 9X, so er9x became ersky9x as well. Around the same time openTx was forked from these.

As FrSky started to produce transmitters, both ersky9x and openTx were made available for them. As more transmitters became available (the 9XR-PRO and others from FrSky), so both openTx and ersky9x were ported to them. I recently renamed ersky9X to erskyTx as it is not just applicable to the original 9X.

I've attempted to make navigating around erskyTx easy, and so easy to find settings you need.

The firmware is here: **LINK**, and there is a link to an er9x manual on that page as well.

Mike

Martin McIntosh25/01/2020 21:12:59
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3085 forum posts
1119 photos

Thanks Mike, but mine is the 10i, not 9X.

Mike Blandford26/01/2020 00:30:31
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575 forum posts
22 photos

erskyTx is open source firmware that runs on many different transmitters (just like openTx does), including the Taranis. You were saying you give up on the Taranis because it is too complex. I'm assuming you are still using openTx on it, and I'm suggesting you might try erskyTx instead.

Mike

Martin McIntosh26/01/2020 08:29:03
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3085 forum posts
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Thanks, I shall have a word with the above mentioned club guru and see what he says.

If I tried to change the system I would probably end up with a doorstop.

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