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Hi from me and my KK Fairey Gannet build

which thread category should I post to

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Jim Barr17/01/2020 17:54:30
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4 forum posts

Hi all,

I am not new to model aicraft building or a bit of RC addons, (hovercraft), but a new project has revealed some big gaps in my ability.

I am the wrong side of 75 and not as dexterous as I was and eyesight is a bit challenged so I decided to open a 40+ year old Keil Kraft Fairey Gannet kit and scale it up to a more doable size.

1.5 * scale worked and is sort of finished so I decided to do a X2 version with RC.

I have 'created' a 3D printed nose cone to carry a lipo motor and am working on selecting all the stuff to drive and control the model.

I need help selecting these bits and pieces and wondered if there is a particular area of this forum to address these queries.

4_Max have been very helpful but It is not fair to utilise a commercial operation as a free training college!

Hence join a forum

Background, I have a workshop, (a Myford Super 7 , Miller, and the sort of kit you would expect), I have qualifications in Math Physics, electronics and engineering.

Looking forward to getting on before my ability fades even more!!

Best wishes,

Jim

Jim Barr

Best is the enemy of good enough

Barrs Law Of Recursive Futility

If you are smart enough to use one of these...

,,, you can probably manage without one!

David Ashby - Moderator17/01/2020 18:03:13
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Moderator
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Hi Jim and welcome.

I've tweaked your thread title and popped it into the 'all things flying' section for now.

simon barr17/01/2020 18:43:16
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1039 forum posts
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Welcome Jim, from me... no relation I guess.

J D 817/01/2020 18:56:10
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1354 forum posts
78 photos

Hi Jim, There were Gannet's all around when I was a youngster from FAA station at Brawdy. Good luck with the model. John.

Ray Wood 417/01/2020 18:59:29
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139 forum posts
25 photos

Hi Jim,

Most of us have a soft spot for the Gannet 😀

Regards Rayimg_20191026_152836.jpg

kevin b17/01/2020 19:16:12
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1706 forum posts
128 photos

Are you fitting contra-rotating props ?

Big fuselage, not a huge wing. Keep it light !

Good luck and welcome to the madness.

yes

Don Fry17/01/2020 19:24:41
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4385 forum posts
52 photos

Sounds like a challenge. Welcome.

But, are you sure? A Gannet, nice looking aircraft, is just not shaped like an easy model to fly. The pilots who flew them, graduated after being successful, in a couple of trainers. They were a minority in their class. You will not fly what you want to build. Given the workshop skills needed to operate a mill and lathe, and the science, you might build build a machine that will fly, but even so, it's complicated, and make one error, in build, or as a pilot, , and it leaves the ground, but does not land.

First you fly a basic trainer. Even so, an instructor is a necessity. At twenty, perhaps not, at eighty, yes.

kc17/01/2020 19:31:04
6207 forum posts
169 photos

Jim, a Fairey Gannet plan and article to 1/8th scale - 81 inches- was published in Flying Scale Models some years ago. If the article would help you I will send you a scanned copy of the article. This described the folding wings etc. Maybe it's much more complex than your plan but it might help.

As always on this forum we don't put e-mail addresses on the forum but exchange them by Private Message ( " message member" at the bottom of this posting ) so if you want to get the scanned copy you need to contact me that way. I have already scanned the article for someone else a while back so the files are still on my computer and it's no problem to send them.

Robin Colbourne17/01/2020 20:09:55
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469 forum posts
6 photos

How about using the mechanics of an electric contra-rotating helicopter to drive the propellers? A walk around any decent sized car boot sale should yield at least one.

Alternatively these flying balls sell for under a fiver.

Flying Ball Contra Rotating Helicopter

If you want to see a complicated model, check out this control line Gannet from 1963. Two engines and 24 bearings in the gearbox: Bruce Randle's 1963 control line Fairey Gannet

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 17/01/2020 20:10:20

Don Fry17/01/2020 20:24:11
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4385 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Don Fry on 17/01/2020 19:24:41:

Sounds like a challenge. Welcome.

But, are you sure? A Gannet, nice looking aircraft, is just not shaped like an easy model to fly. The pilots who flew them, graduated after being successful, in a couple of trainers. They were a minority in their class. You will not fly what you want to build. Given the workshop skills needed to operate a mill and lathe, and the science, you might build build a machine that will fly, but even so, it's complicated, and make one error, in build, or as a pilot, , and it leaves the ground, but does not land.

First you fly a basic trainer. Even so, an instructor is a necessity. At twenty, perhaps not, at eighty, yes.

Jim, sorry, did not accurately read your post. Not a candidate for a basic trainer.

Simon Chaddock17/01/2020 22:43:17
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5571 forum posts
2931 photos

Jim

Twice the size!

Are you modifying the construction?

What is perfectly acceptable for small rubber power maybe inadequate as the size increases particularly with the additional weight of RC gear and electric power.

No problem with the a 'close stringer' fuselage but the wings may need attention with of course with the minimum of additional weight. wink 2

I found the original KK Gannet a bit of a 'brick' compared to other more practical planes in the rubber Scale range. The Auster Arrow was my favourite as it actually flew pretty well.

My KK Gannet. Built in 1972 and I still have it.

sc-gannet.jpg

Original KK size except the wing chord is 10% bigger.

It is electric, but indoor control line, with the current for its brushed motor fed through the fine copper control lines.

Edited By Simon Chaddock on 17/01/2020 22:44:33

Peter Miller18/01/2020 08:29:13
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10491 forum posts
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A couple of years ago Colin Leighfield built my Super Marauder for electric power and fitted contra props

A link to his build blog

**LINK**

Jim Barr20/01/2020 10:36:35
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4 forum posts


Hi All, thanks for the welcome...
And thanks for the encouragement (or is it a warning of impending DOOM)

I have built a 'few of the wall' flying things with various degrees of success but I nust say this would be the most expensive... (maybe the least dangerous).
If I drew a Venn diagram of all the variables, of "requirement" and "availability", "capability" and "luck", and it filled an A4 sheet, the overlap would be a 10mm blob in the middle..... well that's what it sounds like!

Anyway, re ALL your comments,.. thank you...

Hi, Simon B, I'm from Celtic ancestry born in Cornwall, but there are a quite few Barrs around!

Like MANY Celts, I have Haemachromatosis, If you are a Celt, GET TESTED, it is NOT something to enjoy but it can be stopped easily. ( sorry, maybe that should be off forum).


Hi Kevin, Robin, NO! it's bad enough without that complication, just add a bit of fin twist for counter torque.

Hi SImon C,

Good looking model, did you make hinges for the tail plane or use commercial ones, I have been experimenting with full width home-made ones that seem ok but maybe too much extra weight.

..........

If I can source second hand components for most of of the power and control, I may proceed, even if I can only taxi round the dining room! otherwise this has just emerged as a project to keep me entertained. No problem!

Simon Chaddock20/01/2020 13:16:56
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5571 forum posts
2931 photos

Jim

On such a light weight model the elevator hinges are just full length tissue paper! wink 2 Not really robust enough for outdoor although I do use full length top tape hinges on some of my quite big RC foam jobs.

To my way of thinking a free moving hinge and linkage is vital to a) allow a much smaller (lighter) servo and b) reduce the servo current required which reduces the chances of the rx suffering from a low voltage brown out.

I think you may be surprised at just how much thrust is available for the weight of a brushless motor(s) and a LiPo.

I hope your Gannet can be made to fly.

Jim Barr05/02/2020 16:40:43
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4 forum posts

Hi all, I have not given up completely on the flying 2X KK Fairey Gannet, but focus on a 'decorative' piece to exercise, my mind etc. Still not problem free, during the 1.5X build, i did notice some of the scaled components where not as accurate as I would have liked, I put it down to my age and reduced skills.

With the 2X build, the discrepancies are large, (>3%), and need to be corrected.

Someone else must have done this before without this problem.

I made 2X copies of the main drawings for layout, (professional printer) and also photo copied the balsa panels, (formers, wing ribs,etc); these where also 2X copied.

I used PVA glue to put the paper copies on balsa panels.... they shrink.

I have tried copydex and that may work but V hard to apply with adequate evenness.

I Could of course do some calculations, (x,y shrinkage not same) and print over-size to allow for shrinking. wasted wood on trials would be costly.

Ideally, I need a better glue, anyone remember CowGum from the small newspaper print days, (cv late 70's)...

Don Fry05/02/2020 17:32:28
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4385 forum posts
52 photos

You need a better glue. CowGum is no more. I bought a tin of Artcraft Studio Gum on EBay, when the cowgum ran out. Seems the same stuff.

Edited By Don Fry on 05/02/2020 17:35:16

jrman05/02/2020 17:34:55
355 forum posts
3 photos

Try "3M repositionable spray mount".

Don Fry05/02/2020 17:38:25
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4385 forum posts
52 photos

The 3M stuff, for me, delaminates if you try to move it.

Jim Barr05/02/2020 18:55:05
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4 forum posts

Thanks for that, I take it you are using these materials for the same purpose?

I will try Studio gum first if it is like CowGum, also, my experience of the spray version was its life after opening was limited,

Thanks again

Jim

Don Fry05/02/2020 19:10:52
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4385 forum posts
52 photos

I use this stuff, to position paper patterns. Use wet, and reposition at will, and leave to dry. Or, cover both sides, leave to dry, and it a contact adhesive. No water, so paper does not change size. Messy and slow, but effective.

I think these things are called rubber gums. But what I bought looks, handles, and works the same.

The 3M stuff might be great. But it behaves differently. And I can't be bothered to learn how to use it.

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