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Failsafe...no idea

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BackinBlack21/02/2020 10:30:07
113 forum posts
1 photos

A point that has largely been overlooked, the OP states that the receivers are Orange and Storm. The failsafe function is a feature of the receivers not the Transmitter. When the receiver loses signal the transmitter has no control over what the receiver does. The failsafe function is essentially a default set of control positions that the receiver goes to when signal is lost.

It is correct that these default positions are generally set during binding, as the receiver "remembers" the stick positions of the transmitter at the point of binding. Thereafter the receiver remembers these default positions until rebound. The number of channels or control functions remembered varies with receiver manufacturer and model. The most basic receivers offer no or very limited, ie just throttle, failsafe. More (recent) sophisticated receivers offer not only throttle but also elevator , aileron, rudder etc. failsafe settings.

Therefore you need to know not only your transmitter bind process, but also the capabilities and operating modes of the receivers. Manufacturers information is widely available on the internet, but probably more help will be forthcoming form club members who are familiar with the same receivers.

As a minimum the throttle failsafe should be set to cut the throttle on loss of signal, as someone has already mentioned this is now a requirement as set out in CAP 658:

Failsafes
Any powered model aircraft fitted with a receiver capable of operating in failsafe
mode should have the failsafe set, as a minimum, to reduce the engine(s) speed
to idle on loss or corruption of signal.

Edited By BackinBlack on 21/02/2020 10:31:17

Trevor Crook21/02/2020 10:31:03
923 forum posts
67 photos

Sounds like you are sorted for now then Martin - forums can be wonderful! Could be worth taking up Peter's offer of a manual though, I've also got one but as I've still got an old DX7 which I use occasionally I need to keep it.

Foxfan21/02/2020 10:41:36
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925 forum posts
7 photos

Very kind of Peter, but a chum has found one online, which I've downloaded and I will sit and read it when I have a spare half hour!

Once again, many thanks, gents.

Another mystery solved.

Martin

Gary Manuel21/02/2020 11:31:05
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2190 forum posts
1540 photos

I think it's worth adding that just as important as setting your failsafe is checking that it's actually working.

All you need to do is, with your model safely restrained and responding to the transmitter, apply something like quarter throttle and switch off the transmitter. If the motor cuts (or goes to your intended idle) then your failsafe is working.

Lower the throttle to minimum and switch transmitter back on to regain control.

I like to repeat this test as part of my pre flight checks on the first flight of the day on each model.

Bruce Collinson21/02/2020 13:21:23
471 forum posts

And you will, or should, be asked to demonstrate it during an A certificate attempt. Embarrasingly, a very experienced clubmate failed his because he couldn't find the settings in a new-ish Frisky radio setup which seems to be capable of nearly anything, provided you can remember how to talk to it.

BTC

john davidson 121/02/2020 14:33:54
51 forum posts

I had an old DX7 which I bought second hand with the manual, because it worked with my old DSM2 receivers, the programming was so counterintuitive that for the simplest task you had to have the manual open at the relevant page. Got so hissed off with it that I sold it on

Foxfan21/02/2020 17:41:11
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925 forum posts
7 photos

Bruce, I'm not up to A cert yet, but thanks fore the warning.

John, I have the ex owner handy at the club field, so will just ask him to show me round its abilities. The DX5e works fine on my Pietenpol and has no programability anyway.

I may use that for my Vulcan when finished as it has a built in elevon mixing ability

Martin

Bruce Collinson21/02/2020 20:15:03
471 forum posts

Martin,

Neither was I, a year ago.

Do you recall the mantra, never to take off without an aim or ambition for the duration of that flight? I’m a rubbish pilot, too old for reflexes or intuitive use of ailerons let alone rudder, too many incomplete projects, too little time, etc. This time last year my tutor, Darth the goader, mooted the concept that more of us ought to tackle the A Certificate. We don’t need it to fly solo, there’s a simplified test which I passed two years ago, but with a peer group of a dozen pilots and three-odd B candidates we sorted ourselves out, booked an excellent examiner and started prepping.

every single flight form Feb onwards was all about figure 8s and dead stick landings, invariably into our prevailing Westerly wind. The first test was called off for rain. The rearranged test day had a fresh and increasing due Easterly. It doesn’t suit our strip which has a lump and a slope, and a drystone wall (of death) on finals. Darth decreed that the flimsy foamies went first because of the wind forecast. By the time I did mine it was fresh. Despite the stiff wind I succeeded in overshooting on the first dead stick and flew through. I ran very deep on the second attempt but got it down and passed.

Now the B.

The point, have a target and go for it. It was cathartic. I’m still a rubbish pilot but even I have my pride.....plus I can compete in the UKCAA

meetings at other clubs, and if nobody else turns up to try a Pick 5 and I don’t lose it in a slow roll and crash, l might even win something.

just saying.

BTC

Foxfan21/02/2020 20:29:02
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925 forum posts
7 photos

I intend going for my A as soon as possible, but ought to do a bit more flying first. I've only had three training flights on buddy box, two with my own Pietenpol and 2 with friends' models, a tiny foam glider conversion and a very sporty shoulder wing job with an Irvine 40 that my friend was kind enough to trust me with. A few years back my only previous effort at RC flying was with a clueless friend at the airfield of a full size flying club one afternoon when nobody was there. The model was a model of a microlight which, with a PAW 19 on top screamed it's way to a frightening height, where it cut and glided through interminable circuits down to a perfect tricycle landing...twice. So I have a 100% record so far! Can't last, can it?

I was flying nice one level figure eights with the borrowed sporty job when I gave the Tx. back to the owner as the fuel was likely getting low because I'd flown it all over the field! I found left circuits just too tedious. It'll catch me out soon I'm sure

 

Martin

Edited By Foxfan on 21/02/2020 20:30:09

Peter Jenkins21/02/2020 23:38:07
1389 forum posts
146 photos

Foxfan, at the risk of telling you what you already know, have you read the guidance notes on the A test? You can find them here. This document tells you exactly what is required in order to pass the A test. It also covers the B test in the same document. This is what your examiner will be using (or should be using) to carry out the test. Good luck with your A and I hope you decide to go on and take the B. It really is worth going on to the B as you will find that you will crash a darn site less! The biggest issue with both the A and B is flying them consistently but that comes from practice, practice and more practice. It gets easier the more you practice!

Foxfan22/02/2020 10:53:59
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925 forum posts
7 photos

Thanks, Peter,

as long as I can get my A fairly soon, I'll be happy as I'm only ever going to be a sport flyer...scale like, a few simple aeros, but well performed, low, slow and smooth is my intention. I'm not a fan of 3D. I see that as showing off. I can appreciate the skill involved, but not what it makes the model do. Bit like clamping an even bigger outboard on your dinghy and doing a few knots more, it's a case of "so what" for me.

Simple sport flying is all I want.

But doing it with an A seems to garner some respect from fellow fliers.

Martin

Bruce Collinson22/02/2020 11:47:25
471 forum posts

I Martin,

I make no correlation between 3D and the B certificate. Your low, slow and smooth simple aerobatics sounds like.a B test to me. One of our B candidates flew it with a 3D plane, in the manner designed, and was failed for flying inappropriate manoeuvres .

BTC

J D 822/02/2020 12:06:24
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1387 forum posts
79 photos

I passed my A and B test many years ago but still go through the test sequence quit often with different aircraft when no one else is flying.

As someone else said it gives aim and ambition to a flight which is better than pulling willi nilli aerobatics over the patch. Some of my vintage types will not do all the test manouvre's but you can still do the basics.

Foxfan22/02/2020 12:06:26
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925 forum posts
7 photos

Bruce, neither do I. I was just using 3D as a "f'rinstance". We have a few in the club. They come down occasionally with the same old beaten up foamie, show off and go. No chat, no banter, no tea or coffee.

I'm sure I could develop my intended style of flying without the worry of a B. At present the appalling weather is making flying impossible as I can't get to the field. been that way since October, so I have to question if I really want to add pressure to my already reduced year of subs. Let's just get me flying to a decent standard first. That's really all I want and is perfectly attainable I believe, this year.

Martin

Foxfan22/02/2020 12:12:39
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925 forum posts
7 photos

I can see your point, but for some time yet I have the laudable aim and ambition to stay at whatever level I choose and fly smoothly at all times without crashing through my own error. AND I still have to land and do a proper take of from the grass with a 'plane that will actually ruin on the grass, so I have more than enough aims and ambitions to be dealing with for a good time yet!

Martin

Foxfan22/02/2020 12:18:13
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925 forum posts
7 photos

Another aim is to buy 5 servos and have any of them work! My first batch purchase were fine. The last 5, which were exactly the same, after I installed them and a friend tested them with a servo tester, grunted at best and then refused to do another damned thing. Then my chum said how he bought a pack of 10 extension leads and only 4 worked! This is an appalling success rate, but at least the supplier has entered into a discussion about the servos, although, not having a mobile 'phone, I can't send the required video of the non-working servos (and what, I ask, would I video anyway?)

I've no doubt they will be replaced and whilst inconvenient, in this weather it's hardly a problem having to refit them.

Martin

Peter Jenkins22/02/2020 12:32:05
1389 forum posts
146 photos

Many people think the B is a licence to fly in front of the public. It is nothing of the sort. What gaining a B does is to help you to fly an aircraft while you are under full control of it at all times. That is, that you can fly in a straight line parallel to the flight line in use (surprisingly difficult for many pilots), conduct a manoeuvre at a place of your choosing and not where the aircraft happens to be, and to take off and land in a straight line even in a cross wind. The added bonus is that you are less likely to resort to a black bin bag! It also helps to to think about what you want to achieve in each flight before you get airborne. All good reasons for training to fly the B to a pass standard - nothing to do with flashy low level stuff whether 3D or other!

Gary Manuel22/02/2020 12:50:37
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2190 forum posts
1540 photos
Posted by Peter Jenkins on 22/02/2020 12:32:05:

Many people think the B is a licence to fly in front of the public. It is nothing of the sort. What gaining a B does is to help you to fly an aircraft while you are under full control of it at all times. That is, that you can fly in a straight line parallel to the flight line in use (surprisingly difficult for many pilots), conduct a manoeuvre at a place of your choosing and not where the aircraft happens to be, and to take off and land in a straight line even in a cross wind. The added bonus is that you are less likely to resort to a black bin bag! It also helps to to think about what you want to achieve in each flight before you get airborne. All good reasons for training to fly the B to a pass standard - nothing to do with flashy low level stuff whether 3D or other!

Having a B certificate helps you to do all that? Wow! Who'd have thought that a piece of paper could do all that?

Here's me thinking that it was skill and practice that helped the most wink

Martin McIntosh22/02/2020 14:44:55
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3149 forum posts
1133 photos

We all know who you are talking about regarding the dead servos and sending a video of them not working!

I have a TGY i10 and i6 from them. The blurb clearly states that they will work with the 10ch, iA6 park fly and iA6B full range Rx`s but the i10 Tx will not bind with iA6`s. They insisted that it will and wanted a video of it not binding would you believe. Never having done youtube in my life I managed it and also forwarded a rather more professional one of the same by another guy. They would not budge so I sent back the Tx and all of the iA6`s and told them to return them bound. They did nothing with it so I said to send it all back which they did except they sent a new complete system instead of my own so I lost all the programs but did gain a free 10ch Rx.

What exactly are the type of servos you have?

Foxfan22/02/2020 14:53:44
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925 forum posts
7 photos

The company is called Happiness team, which sounds Chinese, but are in London, although the email was the most unreadable and appallingly badly written missive I've ever had!

I shall send them stills of the servos and the damage caused by removing them. Failing satisfaction they'll get a foul feedback on ebay and ebay can pay me back. But if i went elsewhere for them they';re still the same TowerPro, but with English shop increased prices. No actual guarantee they would work any better. They're Tower Pro 9 grams plastic gears. I wasn't aware at the time that very little more I could have got metal geared ones.

Martin

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