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The State of Play

The Anomoly

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gillyg123/05/2020 15:07:09
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129 forum posts
20 photos

I agree with Tim, Tempest will suit me for a laser 80/100.

Cheers Graham .

Paul Johnson 423/05/2020 15:11:21
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742 forum posts
470 photos
Posted by Chris Walby on 23/05/2020 07:33:25:

Having reread Richards previous post I think the options are a bit clearer. Although the LAS need to be the driver there needs to be the appeal to others which are not just IC, but electric modellers wanting a larger model.

I don't mind too much and would not be adverse to a Tempest or Sea Fury as a Hornet just won't appeal to a wide enough audience.

Perhaps a smaller warbird of 70-80 size will interest the LAS group, electric modellers and those that want something to build, but not ultra complex/time consuming.

Options

  1. Tempest or Sea Fury to suit a 70 or 80 size
  2. Tempest or Sea Fury to suit a 100 or 120 size
  3. Tempest or Sea Fury to suit a 155 or 180 size
  4. Something other than a Tempest or Sea Fury

Would 64 inch wingspan work for easy to transport, not to expensive to build, look good in flight and the same reasons that make the P51 appeal to people...just emit a better sound.

Not all electrics sound like little lasers.... some sound like a DB601..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tu58rBW3g&feature=youtu.be

wink

Chris Walby23/05/2020 16:03:15
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1200 forum posts
299 photos

Paul,

A Laser 70 is £230, how much is a motor, ESC and sound system assuming the latter will last as long as a Laser?

Or are you just bashing Lasers.

Paul Johnson 423/05/2020 16:08:01
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742 forum posts
470 photos

I must admit... I was laser bashing.

But it is a good sport...devil

You must admit the real Macoy does sound good.

Chris Walby23/05/2020 16:21:12
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1200 forum posts
299 photos

Yes but how much does it cost in comparison? laugh

Back on topic...Are you up for one then?

 

Edited By Chris Walby on 23/05/2020 16:24:37

Paul Johnson 423/05/2020 17:28:55
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742 forum posts
470 photos

Nope 55" only no more room at the Inn...frown

leccyflyer23/05/2020 18:44:58
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1426 forum posts
317 photos
Posted by Paul Johnson 4 on 23/05/2020 15:11:21:

Not all electrics sound like little lasers.... some sound like a DB601..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tu58rBW3g&feature=youtu.be

wink

That's fantastic - just like the real thing.

Chris Walby23/05/2020 19:53:41
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1200 forum posts
299 photos

Scores on the doors from 6 votes are:

Tempest 70/80 leading with 18 points

Tempest 100/120 second with 11 points

Tempest 155/180 and other in joint third with 7 points

I guess it would be good to get Richards view on feasibility with the numbers we have and the possible size of model + Jon's opinion as to which engine is most/least suitable foe the Tempest?

Ron Gray23/05/2020 20:37:32
1931 forum posts
803 photos

Ideally, for me it would be the largest of these, but tbh I would go with any of them!

Robert Hay 423/05/2020 20:43:25
46 forum posts
6 photos

I would have a 70-80 size Tempest MkII in a heartbeat.

Favourite plane and I have a spare engine!

Bruce Collinson23/05/2020 20:52:32
515 forum posts

As it appears that there was a consensus for a P 51 in 50-55” format and I believe I’ve my name on one, I’d look carefully at the smallest option here, 70-80 but wouldn’t rule out the middlle one if that was the only option.

BTC

RICHARD WILLS23/05/2020 22:41:09
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483 forum posts
66 photos

I think the earlier part of this thread made it obvious that the IC fans wanted something bigger than anything that would suit the mainstream electric fans . So you might as well dismiss electric . Yes it can be done, but wouldnt be done by most . 4s models with cheap motors and retracts are very affordable so can appeal to big numbers.

Next , you have to consider if ,a kit manufacturer, who is listening, is going to be convinced to design a whole new model for a handful of people .

If I already have the model and it just needs tweaking , I can justify a run of 20 , maybe a dozen if not too tricky .

If its a new model that involves new plan , new cowl , canopy , prototype , manual , then you have to be on twenty or more . Even then , not very appealing .

Th biggest single concern for me is that I am not hearing many voices , So pushing everyone toward the Tempest may not be working .

Once allowed to voice their choice , the 55" Mustang reached 35 request very quickly .

So what is the true choice of happy compromise for the IC boys ? Lets face it , they dont have to be Laser , you have DLE , ASP etc all needing the same model . The truth is , to get new models you need each other to add weight to your needs .

Bucksboy24/05/2020 07:10:26
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576 forum posts
109 photos

I don't need a new model whichever way you look at it, I've got several ready to fly and a few ready to build, one of those is a WR Bf110. So, the real choice is a WR 55" electric Mustang or nothing. I totally understand that a few people requesting a certain model is not enough for all the work to produce a totally new model.

I'll be happy with a Mustang, if I need another bigger kit, I'll buy another one from the Brian Taylor range.

Chris Walby24/05/2020 07:21:23
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1200 forum posts
299 photos

Thanks Richard for your comment and the LAS do allow other infernal combustion engines into the fold.

The optimist in me thought, Lets see who wants what in the larger size be it a larger P51 or something else?

The pessimist in me says lets just put the wounded animal out of its misery (IC is on its way out its just a matter of time like the rest of the hobby). Call the bluff, see who is interested then draw the conclusion and move on. The IC guys still can’t settle on size or even model if you take the ½ empty view.

The reality if we boil this down to hard opinion (mine)?

Die hard IC would like a Tempest, there are 10 likely orders and we need 20+

Not much pick up from the electric guys who might have wanted discussed a bigger electric (for all the reasons you stated Richard).

IMHO we will end up just where we started, but with 40 kits of a existing design that are electric and as you say there are plenty on old plans of larger models if you want to put an IC in there.

We could open the debate about a bigger P51, but more people might drop out as they have already committed to the smaller P51 kit and don’t want another P51.

I was hoping for a kit (sort of don’t care what it is within reason) that could be IC or electric, bit bigger than 55 inch and of a modern design and easy construction to perhaps entice the newer builder to either electric or IC. Perhaps I am 10 years too late.

RICHARD WILLS24/05/2020 09:53:32
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483 forum posts
66 photos

All good points Chris .

It is complicated because most people that buy big engines have a bigger budget for modelling and more space.

YT produce great looking models that are ready to go and at relatively reasonable cost , so to some extent , they have put a glass ceiling in place . In fact , when you consider the cost of their kits relative to a 55" semi scale P51 or FW190 from Kyosho at £300 then they look very good .

Generally though , the ARTFs play to American preference (YT has bucked this trend ) . Consequently I would assume that a Tempest or Sea Fury would do better then a P51 in this country . Also Tony Nijhuis does a reasonable size P51 and Spit , DB do both Spit and Hurry , so why would I do any better ?

My old friend up North , Brian Brassey , did some collaborations with me in a small way , and he had the same philosophy . ie Good looking near scale models that were light and quick to build . But he got into larger engines and took his previous thoughts with him . To that end , he did make a 75" Tempest with foam wings and decks utilising the Brian Taylor Typhoon Cowling .

As with all Tempests , it flew beautifully and looked fabulous in the air and on the ground .

Jon (Lord of Lasers) has been very quiet on this , but having flown at so many shows where larger models are prevalent , he may be able to give an overall picture of the current scene .

It is disturbing that Mike Booth produced a beautiful large Yak a few years back that seemed to come to nothing and also I would ask how successful Willis Warbirds (Strange name angel 2) really gets on .

Finally , would something like the old Regal Eagle / GeeBee sportster look of the 1930s be more generically

appealing ?

RICHARD WILLS24/05/2020 10:17:11
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483 forum posts
66 photos

Ive just looked at the YT International Site . It would appear that they have a vast selection of warbirds . With a typical 75" model costing only £380 ready to go . Pretty much every type mentioned before is on there , so I guess that is why kit manufacturers cant find a space in the large motor market .

Bob Cotsford24/05/2020 10:26:47
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8393 forum posts
463 photos

Now I'm very much in the middle ground in that my preference in recent years has been for 60-90 glow sized models around 65" span to utilise 6S 12-1500W setups. Why 6S? Big enough to shrug off the weight of retracts, bigger looks better ie smoother in the air. Bigger are easier to get my sausage fingers in for fitting out and swapping batteries.

A kit for a MkV Tempest around 65" could part me from my pension otherwise I'll stick to disposable ARTFs thanks, even if it does mean going for a P47 seeing as 190As and P40s of that size are thin on the ground of late.

 

edit - I thought YT had stopped selling airframes but true enough, their website still lists a good range including one or two that I thought were long out of production!  I may have to give Martin a call on Tuesday to see if they really do have a 63" 190A and the old ModelTech Dragon Lady!

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 24/05/2020 10:35:33

Martyn K24/05/2020 12:24:16
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5080 forum posts
3678 photos

There is always a risk of reinventing the wheel without asking why the wheel failed in the first place.

I Al looking at a CAP Hurricane build (from plan not kit) at the moment, it's the right size for me although getting an ic engine inside is a bit of a problem.

The point is that here was a range of aircraft, they appear to be well thought through, cowls and cockpits available but the business no longer exists. If there was a viable demand for these kits, then why are they no longer produced?

Martyn

Ron Gray24/05/2020 13:54:34
1931 forum posts
803 photos

Not too sure that YT are still trading. They used to sell the ESM range of ARTFs but ESM went bust a couple of years ago, Bigplanes also sell the ESM kits but these are now nearing the end of stock (I think I got the last Bearcat from them last year). A great shame because the ESM kits were excellent value for money, especially their 83" Hurricane (I had, and destroyed 2!!!) and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I could find one.

And having mentioned Hurricane, why is that they are not more popular?

Chris Walby24/05/2020 15:34:14
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1200 forum posts
299 photos

I think things have changed in the market place, there is a opportunity for manufacturers to in effect pre-sell a model based on their reputation.

People will show their willingness by putting their names forward (some willing to front it with cash deposit) to ensure the kit goes ahead.

The problem is there is just not enough IC or electric people out there who want a 64 inch Tempest, but there is enough for a 55 inch P51.

I don't find any pleasure trying to unpick old drawings with "the way we used to do it" poor or no instructions and no idea if it will fly well or like a brick.

We need to find another 10 who want a Tempest or stop kidding ourselves there is a chance.

Can some one enlighten me as to who actually sells (as in stock right now) a Tempest for 80 to 100 4 stroke size?

and :

Dear Customer,

 YT International is no longer trading due to the current climate, we are now solely concentrating on our pilot business, www.tailoredpilots.com

 

My apologies for any inconvenience, we are having problems removing the YT website at the moment so will take it down as soon as possible. If you require any model spares then you contact the factory directly, talk to Herlin at esm2002@163.com

 

Kind Regards,

Wilson.

Edited By Chris Walby on 24/05/2020 15:36:40

Edited By Chris Walby on 24/05/2020 15:37:13

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