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The State of Play

The Anomoly

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Richard Clark 206/07/2020 22:51:40
424 forum posts
Posted by RICHARD WILLS on 06/07/2020 15:54:19:

The simple conclusion has to be , that you all want a small sporty model that is easy to live with .(thats one new thread )

Granville 'QED' in 'Conquistador del Cielo' paint scheme

Denis Watkins14/07/2020 07:18:42
4544 forum posts
123 photos

Just for your analysis Richard

Observations as lockdown unlocks and the mood changes as flying days increase.

I have noticed both on this site and down at the field

The builders actually build a lot of models.

The ARTF portion of the club appear to tickover on 2 or 3 models, replacing badly damaged models with new

And a turnover of " swaps " and " part Xes " as part of their hobby.

Where the " Buiders " Build a plethora of types and marks, even 2 or 3 of the same mark in different schemes

Notably, the builder works all season on his hobby, with " dreams " in boxes, in storage, ready to bring out each winter,

to Complete for the summer.

Let's ballpark a figure, don't shoot me, say 25% of flyers build, but they build all the time and store kits in boxes too.

In a nutshell, fewer customers but will hold stock of masses of models.

ARTF gets us " in the air " quickly, and can offer some superb models and schemes all covered and ready,

So that market is pretty solid.

It appears that not all flyers are builders, but builders build more than one model in a season.

It is little wonder that is is so difficult to keep pace with current tastes, but there lies the key I think

RICHARD WILLS14/07/2020 11:59:33
533 forum posts
78 photos

A good round up Denis . I get to chat to quite few people round the country and that can give great feedback as well as the info I get from fellow traders .

The North are far more active builders than the south . The chaps in Nuneaton have been telling me that their proper builders in a club of about 100 were previously 4-5 (or so it seemed ) they now appear to be more like 30-40 .

That sounds possible in some clubs though Id say the norm is more like Builders doubling .

The factors for the future are : People dont want to deal with the Chinese (as much ) Perhaps ?

With more time spent indoors , an ARTF offers only a limited time of build entertainment .

The price of ARTFs has almost doubled in the last few years , making British Kits competitive .

I would also expect that once they had built their first "proper" model , the sense of achievement ,way exceeds their enjoyment of buying a "perfect " ARTF built by a man on the other side of the world .

We all love our kids and pets with all their imperfections , no matter how perfect next doors are .

For us as builders to guarantee a future we like the look of , we need to push a few of the ARTFs (ARFURS) over the edge . All of those warbird fans that bought FMS models at £180 are now paying £320 and it is still just a lump of foam . They are the guys we need . So sidle up to an ARFUR , and show him your lovely wooden P51? Spitfire etc and say "Mate , wouldnt you rather have a proper one ?"

Ron Gray29/07/2020 09:10:37
2235 forum posts
978 photos

Looking ahead, I rather fancy building a Beaufighter but this seems to be a very rarely modelled ‘plane. Can’t understand why as the subject matter, spanning a period of 20 years of service, gives the opportunity for many different colour schemes etc. I understand the reluctance to fly multis, historically the fear of engine failure, but with modern electric power and sound modules surely this shouldn’t be of concern?

I would be interested to see others views on the Beaufighter as a suitable subject matter.

Chris Walby29/07/2020 10:05:38
1277 forum posts
315 photos

Seems like a good idea, but others will need convincing or something out of the German stable of twins?

As for reliability...

  • Electric - PZ mossie shed a blade, vibration sheared aileron servo - did not end well
  • Electric - BH mossie factory motor connection failed (lack of solder) - shear luck ended well
  • Electric - TN twin, ESC failed - did not end well
  • IC - SG Dual Ace, engine quit due to naff setting up by the owner - ended well

Have a grumpy Tiger Cub planned with another club mate to introduce them to joys of twins so this could be a good follow on project.

Eric Robson29/07/2020 10:08:27
291 forum posts
52 photos

Hi Ron, Sarik do three Beaufighter plans from 48" to 95" span I think they would have to be built very light at the back end due to the short nose, but never the less a great subject. Myself I would prefer a Ju 88. Following with great interest your Me.110 build.

gillyg129/07/2020 10:15:36
136 forum posts
21 photos

Hi Ron

Yes its on my bucket list too, the only plans i have found is the TN 72" version, and a larger one at 84 /89" inch can't remember which ??. Its an age thing 😉 but yes have mentioned this to Richard before.

I know BT did one in his early years but never produced a plan .

So if we can get few more people onboard -- just got to persuade RW to produce a " limited edition special" exclusive one time offer.??? Bonus points awarded --' you get the gist.

Pigs might fly.😉

Ron Gray29/07/2020 10:23:45
2235 forum posts
978 photos

I saw the Sarik plans, but missed the other sizes, apart from the 95" one and I've seen YouTube vids of the TN one too. Trouble is, once you've built a WR kit them you are somewhat spoilt and tend to wish all kits were like that! Not that I'm against cutting my own (is that like rolling your own??). So, yes, I would dearly love for richard to get a grip and produce a Beau, never mind the Mossie (although that is also another fav but too 'common' but we really need a groundswell to get it moving (more chance of a pig shaped one methinks).

@Chris - get what you mean, a failure in a twin is potentially more of an issue than a single. I've also got a GTC (enlarged) to build at some point.

@Eric - keep following the BF110 build, pictures will;l be few and far between as Paul, Dwain, Graham etc have provided excellent ones so far so no point in repeating them! With a bit of luck it may get finished in the next couple of weeks!!!

leccyflyer29/07/2020 10:39:02
1518 forum posts
327 photos

Back in the 1990's when I first looked at making a Beaufighter there simply were not any available. BrianTaylor had done one, but hadn't produced a plan and he specifically warned me away from the Beaufightere when I contacted him to see if he had any plans for that plan. There was John Deacon;s mini funfighter sized Beau for two .10s (which I have one, in the process of being electrified). So me and some pals set about producing a large Beaufighter using the salami foam method, which made it all the way to being a balsa skinned airframe before it transpired that the regulations wouldn;t let our pilot fly the model - he was under 18 at the time - so we lost interest.

In the meantime Keith Mitchell had produced his large scale Beaufighter and for a while there were Beuafighters everywhere - RBC made a kit, Flair made a kit, HVP Modellbau did an ARTF with an ABS fuselage, Alfa prodiuced a small foam parkflyer, John Ranson made two different Beaufighter as plans, which are the ones referred to above as Sark plan packs and IIRC Tony Ninjuis also had a Beaufighter.. So from being one of the most undermodelled aeroplanes around there was quite suddenly a plethora of Beaufighters available. If Richard made one, I'd definitely be up for it.

Jon - Laser Engines29/07/2020 12:48:45
5561 forum posts
271 photos

I would love a Beaufighter but its got to be big. The full size is a monster of the thing and a little one just wouldnt do it justice.

Im not worried about twin i/c, modern engines are plenty reliable and the beau has a big old fin and huge rudder so even if one did stop it would be no problem to handle it. Heavy engines well forward would also help c/g.

Costal command colours, Mk X with rockets would be my choice of decoration

Jonathan Sharland29/07/2020 15:06:07
34 forum posts

I would love a mossie around 56". Anythign bigger and i won't get it in the house

John Stainforth29/07/2020 16:07:11
367 forum posts
64 photos

On the subject of Beaufighters flying on one engine, you might find the following anecdote about my great uncle George Stainforth amusing. He ended up as a Wing Commander in command of several Beaufighter squadrons in Egypt during the Second World War, and was killed in a Beaufighter. He was a bit of a maverick and insisted on flying all the time, much to the consternation of the RAF high command. Here are some extracts from someone else's diary, quoted in ‘Strangers in The Sky’ by Carl Morgan'.

July 12th. Wg Co Stainforth flew a Hurricane upside down over the camp, very low, I could see his blood red face. He's the only one who will loop a Beaufighter. I asked an Australian pilot if he would do it, he said "Not bloody likely, I've got a job to fly it straight and level."

July 25th. Headquarters Cairo again saying Wg Co Stainforth is too old to fly and has ordered M.O. to give him a full medical. The M.O. gave Wg Co Stainforth the medical this morning and failed him on his eyesight and blood pressure.

This afternoon the CO sent for the M.O. and had him fitted up with a parachute, ordered him into a Beaufighter, had him strapped into the observer's seat, ordered the riggers to make sure everything was battened down, and remove all loose articles, then took off. He climbed high above the camp, rolled, dived, looped the loop, flew upside down, dived down on the desert firing his guns. He then approached the landing strip, cut one engine and made a perfect landing, took off again and flew upside down over the camp, did a circuit and landed. As he was approaching dispersal, one of the M.O.'s orderlies said, "The M.O. had a `Gippo gut' before he went up, I'll bet he's in a state." Stainforth brought the Beau. to a halt, got out and said to everyone, "You had better get the Doc. out, I don't think he's too well by the smell in there." Two orderlies had to assist the Doc. out of the aircraft. He had messed himself and during the flying upside down period it had run down his back and came out from his collar, the smell was terrible. The M.O. was ill for three or four days. The riggers had to scrub out the aircraft and leave the hatches open for hours to get rid of the smell. Nothing further was said about George Stainforth being too old to carry on flying.

Ron Gray29/07/2020 16:15:08
2235 forum posts
978 photos

Absolutely bloody brilliant!!! - love it.thumbs up

leccyflyer30/07/2020 09:04:10
1518 forum posts
327 photos

On size it would have to build <7kg AUW for a Beaufighter kit or you are likely to significantly reduce what would already be a fairly low demand from the average club flyer. Larger sizes might be better suited to plans, rather than complete kits. What size was the WR Messerschmitt Bf110?

Piers Bowlan30/07/2020 13:21:00
2167 forum posts
53 photos

About 72in span might be not too large (therefore costly) for electric power and not too small/heavy for IC. Could one build a 72in span Beaufighter powered adequately by a pair of Laser 70s for example? What I am driving at is, is 72in span the 'sweet spot' regarding popularity, if a kit were produced by Richard? Obviously that will be too big for some and too small for others!

Another thought... How about designing the wings outboard of the engine nacelles removable to make transportation and assembly at the flying field very much easier.

Leccyflyer, I can't find a Beaufighter amongst Tony Nijhuis's designs on his website, perhaps he just never decided to kit it?

John Stainforth30/07/2020 13:56:16
367 forum posts
64 photos

There was definitely a TN Beaufighter, because I bought the plans for that about ten years ago. I wanted to change his wing structure, but never got round to it. Now I can't find those plans!

Piers Bowlan30/07/2020 14:38:45
2167 forum posts
53 photos

Ah yes, here is the plan and the parts from here. A very good build blog here.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 30/07/2020 14:45:44

gillyg130/07/2020 20:06:39
136 forum posts
21 photos

here we go guys ,another one , 1/8 scale available from" flying scale models plans" service, wooden parts only, for a pair of 75/80 four strokes of course , (laser Jon)


gillyg130/07/2020 20:11:22
136 forum posts
21 photos

hopefully the link above will take you there, however would prefer a kit from Richard, with everything to go with it,

cheers Graham ( Cornwall )

gillyg130/07/2020 20:17:44
136 forum posts
21 photos


here's the BT one from his early years.

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