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Gary's Brian Taylor P-47 build

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Gary Clark 123/05/2020 11:11:02
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235 forum posts
131 photos

I got the peel ply off last night Danny and all seems ok so far. I'll get the end sanded down a bit then get the glass on the rear section today then hopefully the underside tomorrow. Want to get it sanded down and get some primer on to see how she has come out but I need patience!

I've just dug out the parts of the rudder since it is the only part of the tail I still have to build. There are 2 3/8 parts and 1 1/8 part so I have no idea what's going on if being honest. Clearly I don't need almost an inch thick rudder so must be extra parts there.

20200523_105934.jpg

Unusual for BT, there isn't really any detail on the plan that I can see about the rudder. I also noticed in Trevor's build that he didn't use a solid balsa one and instead used a built up one, maybe Trevor could help us out a bit?

I'll have a better look at the plans later as they are pinned to the board just now but easy to lift off.

Gary

 

Edited By Gary Clark 1 on 23/05/2020 11:12:01

Danny Fenton23/05/2020 11:22:27
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9626 forum posts
4449 photos

As you say that is most odd that it should be solid wood? Not like Brian at all. He tends to favor a 1/16 core with riblets and 1/16 sheeting?

rudder detail.jpg

Cheers

Danny

Gary Clark 123/05/2020 12:26:39
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235 forum posts
131 photos

Agreed Danny, it is the first BT one i have seen like this. The P-47 has a bulge at the bottom of the rudder that keeps the shape of the rounded fuselage and then returns to flat sides above the elevators to match the fin so maybe the solid rudder allows you to shape this rather than trying to mimic that with riblets as sheeting that would be tough. Just a thought and probably only relevant if going for accurate scale.

Thanks for the photo Danny, this part is faded on my plan for some reason so not very clear. What is you guys interpretation of it? I'm not sure what its trying to show.

screenshot_20200523-120906_samsung internet.jpg

Gary

Gary Clark 123/05/2020 13:23:11
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235 forum posts
131 photos

This is a photo from Brian Wood's P-47 from his thread on RSCB. It shows the shape of the bottom of the rudder pretty well.

screenshot 2020-05-23 at 13.13.54.jpg

It is an excellent thread if you are interested in top end scale building. Very talented chap.

Gary

Danny Fenton23/05/2020 14:35:44
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9626 forum posts
4449 photos

Just have to bear in mind Brian scaled the model up a fair bit. But as you say a very good modeller.

I was looking at the rudder on the Brian Taylor P-51 that I really should get back on to and he has done a built up rudder with the lower bulge, it is also present on the Mustang.

I think he has done the rudder solid to allow for the material missing from the leading edge, to accommodate the elevator horn assembly.

Cheers

Danny

Nick Somerville23/05/2020 17:47:39
101 forum posts
65 photos

Garry, thanks for photo of Brian’s rudder that shows what I was thinking. My Sarik pack had 2 x 1/4 And 4 x 3/8 rudder pieces! I left out one of the 1/4 sections and glued the rest up and the bottom section still isn’t Quite wide enough to for the bottom profile, though the whole block would make a decent door stop.

I take the point about thickness needed around the elevator horn area which is covered with non structural litho. I think I will press on and sand it all to shape and consider what weight is left after covering the workshop in shavings. If too heavy will come up with an alternative. Will keep you posted.

Good to see the peel ply on the glass cloth. Done plenty of glass cloth work on scale sailplanes years ago, and more recently on the front end of my Stampe, but a new technique for me so thanks for showing.

Ray Wood 424/05/2020 07:24:22
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219 forum posts
44 photos

Hi Guys,

The BT Vultee Valiant plan shows the same solid construction 2 x 1/2" lamination thought it's one of his earlier design ? I have gone built up route to save some lead up front 😄👍

regards Rayimg_20200514_100951.jpg

Gary Clark 124/05/2020 14:49:34
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235 forum posts
131 photos

Hi Guys,

I have finished the glassing on the moth minor fuselage so back into the thunderbolt. I'll post some pics once i get some primer on to see how she turns out. It is my first glass project to use peel ply on so i'm very intrigued to see how it works.

I reckon Danny is right with the solid rudder being there for a structural reason so i am going to keep it as is. There is so much space up front on the P-47 that i think I think i can save adding lead by getting more of the electronics up there such as receiver and retract battery. Will have a small ignition battery up there also so a good amount of weight to load up there if required.

Nice looking tail there Ray, i am enjoying your build and look forward to seeing it progress.

Anyway, enough chat, i have a seriously thick rudder that needs sanded down!!

Gary

Danny Fenton24/05/2020 14:58:27
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9626 forum posts
4449 photos

Gary, there is one bit of advice re Brian's plans. "deviate at your peril" Every line affects another. I have learned that from experience, the guy is a very talented designer. You will not go wrong if you follow it to the letter.

Cheers

Danny

Ray Wood 424/05/2020 17:32:30
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219 forum posts
44 photos

Hi All ,

That's good advice from Danny, I have studied Brian's designs for the last 40 years since my first build of his Mk 9 which with his first Hurricane were pre retract days with fixed under carts, the first designs all featured the 1/4" square framework with the formers fixed on the outside, he then progressed the the later 8 3" Spit which has sheet sides, one for the future I have all the bits 😄👍 enjoy your P47 build ! !I

Take weight out where you can, they do end up heavy if your not careful.img_20200109_204424.jpg

Regards Ray

Gary Clark 124/05/2020 18:58:40
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235 forum posts
131 photos

Thanks Danny and Ray. I am certainly not going to start questioning BT's design!

i've got the servo tray in and my plan is a rudder , elevator, tailwheel steering and tailwheel retract all being separate but placed in the location on the plan.

Made up the steering arm for the tail and got it in place

20200524_185101.jpg

The plan calls for it to be the opposite way around to the way i have it but a snake can get there easy and it leaves a nice clear path to the tail wheel for the cables. Then i realised when it retracts the cables will probably not loosen enough. I reckon i will remove and flip it around. Listen to the advice and follow the plan Gary!!

Chris Freeman 325/05/2020 14:11:23
353 forum posts
525 photos

I am watching this build as it is a great aircraft. Built one a few years ago and it flew a treat.p47 flying 009.jpgp1010961.jpg

Nick Somerville25/05/2020 17:36:29
101 forum posts
65 photos

Garry, I was thinking of using just one servo for rudder and tailwheel steering. Plan is to have a short linkage from The servo to a Bellcrank and then two sets of closed loops wires running to rudder and tailwheel. The tailwheel one protected with springs. Therefore I have so far omitted the little bellcrank behind the tailwheel assembly. Is this a bad idea and not normal practice? Btw I am also planning to position rudder, tail retract, elevator and theottle servos on a row abreast also like yourself and as shown on the plan.

Gary Clark 125/05/2020 18:50:53
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235 forum posts
131 photos

That's a cracker chris, looks great. I really need to decide on a paint scheme for mine.

That sounds good to me Nick, there is not shortage of space so I went separate. I'd normally just do it from 1 servo but no massive reason for doing it this way

Gary

Gary Clark 126/05/2020 14:05:52
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235 forum posts
131 photos

Hi Guys,

Not a lot done on the P-47 but i have been sanding the primer coat off the Moth Minor. I have been sorting the control snakes for the P-47 and started using these tile cutter for the holes for the snake outers. I got them on Banggood and make a lovely neat hole in the balsa without any tearing

20200526_134213.jpg

20200526_134021.jpg

Just thought i'd let you guys know if it helps anyone. Parts have arrived for the tailwheel so i can carry on with that whilst sorting the rudder out.

Gary

Ray Wood 426/05/2020 18:31:51
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219 forum posts
44 photos

Hi Gary,

Wow they are heavy duty drills !!

I use sharpened brass tubes which were commercially available but easy to make 😄

Regards Rayimg_20190821_201150.jpg

Gary Clark 126/05/2020 23:34:42
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235 forum posts
131 photos

Hi Ray,

Those are the what I was looking for for but those other cutters came in a load of sizes and were vey cheap.

I am still waiting on a few bits arriving but got most of the tailwheel done

20200526_231622.jpg

I am still learning metalwork and had to make all the parts from scratch so they are a little agricultural but we all have to learn somewhere. Pretty chuffed it all works though.

The control snakes for the tailwheel are in but there isn't much clearance from the tailwheel steering brake so i will probably move it down to avoid and potential snagging.

20200526_231553.jpg

I will get the rudder and elevator snakes in tomorrow and then probably get the formers on. I am tempted to plank/sheet the underside whilst it is on the bench so that I can sort the gear doors whilst it is pinned down. Thoughts?

Gary

Nick Somerville27/05/2020 08:35:18
101 forum posts
65 photos

Tailwheel looking good there Garry. I have not done much to mine as been busy making repairs on another model and making most of the fine weather. I am installing a pair of carbon pushrods for tail retract and elevator and as previously mentioned a pair of closed loops for the rudder and tailwheel steering. Won’t need the little bellcrank at the rear.
If you are going to use the fine piano wire spring method to keep the wheel centred when it is retracted (stopping it snagging the doors) I would do some tests with the position of the bellcrank and notches as the springs can easily get locked against the retract housing.

My rudder is getting closer to the final shape and lighter with each sanding session. I cut a 4mm groove with a razor saw all around the rear perimeter and glued in .6mm ply so I can achieve a sharp ding proof TE.

Nick Somerville27/05/2020 17:10:21
101 forum posts
65 photos

a6000dc6-6764-49d2-a1e7-92ef5d0b6812.jpegSome pics of the rudder and fin. As with my tailplane and elevators I shall add the hinge shrouds after finalising the Robart hinge holes as they will need to be a good fit. 4012713d-043f-4a85-a2ee-22f86247fbbc.jpeg

Gary Clark 127/05/2020 22:40:30
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235 forum posts
131 photos

That coming along great Nick and the rudder looks great, much further down the line than mine. I still have lots of finalising to do with the tailwheel so I will bear that in mind but still waiting on bits arriving to get it completed.

I spent a lot of today sanding the second primer coat from the Moth Minor so hopefully that is almost done as my poor little hands can take much more! I only need to to finish the fuselage since the wings are stuck in Scotland at the moment and I am in Norfolk so as soon as I can get it complete I can focus on the P-47 completely.

I did manage to get a bit done and got the love handles on this big lass

20200527_221634.jpg

As you can see, still some temporary brass tubes in the tailwheel but I wanted it in position whilst fitting everything else. There is also a former missing (13) from just forward of the tailwheel since I reckon it will get knocked whilst finalising that area but she has really filled out.

Rudder parts are glued together and ready for sanding to start. I just filled out the areas that needed it at the bottom instead of joining the whole rudder sheets that came as they would only be sanded off

20200527_221616.jpg

20200527_221557.jpg

All the control snakes are now in and sorted at the rear, but just some tidy up bits to do at the servo end as it looks like a snakes wedding just now. I want to sort the fuel tank position, which will probably be on the underside of the fuselage box instead of the top to align with the inverted engine better, then get the throttle and choke servos in before putting the formers at the front. Lots and lots to be getting on with!

Gary

 

Edited By Gary Clark 1 on 27/05/2020 22:43:33

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