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Is there a list of frequencies we can use in the UK?

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Steve J28/05/2020 08:16:01
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Posted by Phil Green on 27/05/2020 19:40:35:

The uk version has exactly the same quote:

I know. I referred to it in my 19:31 post.

Anyway, as you don't seem to be able to understand the phrase 'in addition', there is very little point discussing this with you so I'm going to say goodbye.

Phil Green28/05/2020 10:32:52
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Posted by Steve J on 28/05/2020 08:16:01:
Posted by Phil Green on 27/05/2020 19:40:35:

The uk version has exactly the same quote:

I know. I referred to it in my 19:31 post.

Anyway, as you don't seem to be able to understand the phrase 'in addition', there is very little point discussing this with you so I'm going to say goodbye.

Wow. Chill Steve smiley

all I'm saying is that if it is a legit R/C band then its not specifically documented as such like all the other R/C bands are.

Edited By Phil Green on 28/05/2020 15:06:12

Dickw28/05/2020 12:32:51
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So, in summary :-

868/915 is a legal frequency in Eu/FCC areas respectively if the technology is done right - but perhaps not for model control.

The Jeti system uses the 900 frequency only as a backup in case the 2.4 is wiped out (e.g. illegal 2.4 booster nearby).

So the Jeti 900 is not used for model control (and therefore legal) unless the 2.4 is swamped, and even in that case it remains legal as long as you don't move the sticks (i.e. try to control the model).

The pilot then has a decision to make - does he land the model safely, but perhaps illegally, using the 900, or does he remain legal and leave it to crash somewhere?

devil sorry - couldn't resist the temptation.

Dick

Phil Green28/05/2020 13:07:03
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I've asked Ofcom for clarification, the initial conversation suggests that the documentation is far from up to date and that spectrum control has gone to pot... and that the UKRCC isnt properly supported by Ofcom. Maybe Jeti themselves could give a document reference. I cant imagine a company like Jeti getting it wrong.

Peter Christy28/05/2020 14:04:55
1908 forum posts

Does the UKRCC still exist? I used to be on it, but haven't heard from them in years!

Back when I attended meetings, Ofcom always had a representative there. A very helpful and knowledgeable chap he was, too!

--

Pete

Andy Stephenson28/05/2020 14:16:06
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I just searched for the UKRCC and it takes me straight to the BMFA website with no explanation. I guess that says it all.

A.

Frank Skilbeck28/05/2020 14:53:57
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Posted by Dickw on 28/05/2020 12:32:51:

So, in summary :-

868/915 is a legal frequency in Eu/FCC areas respectively if the technology is done right - but perhaps not for model control.

The Jeti system uses the 900 frequency only as a backup in case the 2.4 is wiped out (e.g. illegal 2.4 booster nearby).

So the Jeti 900 is not used for model control (and therefore legal) unless the 2.4 is swamped, and even in that case it remains legal as long as you don't move the sticks (i.e. try to control the model).

The pilot then has a decision to make - does he land the model safely, but perhaps illegally, using the 900, or does he remain legal and leave it to crash somewhere?

devil sorry - couldn't resist the temptation.

Dick

From what I read 868 mhz can be used for control but it is a general frequency for controlling all sorts of devices. As I understand it normally the lower the frequency the greater the range, for the same power output, but data rates on lower frequencies are lower. So 35 mhz would have the greatest range but because of the data rates to wouldn't be practical to build a frequency hopping system.

Christopher Morris 229/05/2020 08:35:03
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Posted by Trevor Crook on 28/05/2020 07:33:27:

Blimey, there was I thinking I'd given a simple answer to a simple question at the start of this thread. Should I have just responded "No"?!

Interesting that there is 20 something replies & still not a simple answer. surely a simple table with a shortlist of frequencies that you can & can't anymore use. But I think organisations like the government, Ofcom, & all the others don't live in the real world, & like to create as much paperwork as possible. I was lucky & retired at 50 because of the ridiculous amount of paperwork that was having to do in my trade created by similar organisations to the ones above & then having to explain to my customers why my prices had increased. Glad I live in the real world.

Denis Watkins29/05/2020 09:19:18
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My garage door works on 868 so don't fly when I go in and out.

Anything flying nearby on 868 must feel a conflict

Dickw29/05/2020 12:22:17
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Posted by Denis Watkins on 29/05/2020 09:19:18:

My garage door works on 868 so don't fly when I go in and out.

Anything flying nearby on 868 must feel a conflict

My WiFi works on 2.4, but my RC system in the same room still seems to work OK.

I do recall once not being able to unlock my car while a guy was unloading a nearby lorry with a remote control lifting arm!

We have to remember that we don't have exclusive use of these parts of the RF spectrum, so our systems have to cope with that - and the rules are inevitably complex to cater for all these options.

At least I don't have to worry about people taking the wrong peg any more yes

Dick

Richard Clark 229/05/2020 15:54:18
424 forum posts

At present in the UK if a piece of equipment has got CE marked on it it's fine to use no matter what's inside.

End of 'problem'.

Christopher Morris 229/05/2020 16:53:27
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Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 29/05/2020 15:54:18:

At present in the UK if a piece of equipment has got CE marked on it it's fine to use no matter what's inside.

End of 'problem'.

Laugh! That means no more from China. Can't even get an item from there that has a UK plug or an adapter with a fuse. So you buy a simple 3amp item from China & you then back it up with the main 32amp fuse box fuse. "Very Dangerous" should be stopped.

Richard Clark 229/05/2020 17:41:35
424 forum posts
Posted by Christopher Morris 2 on 29/05/2020 16:53:27:
Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 29/05/2020 15:54:18:

At present in the UK if a piece of equipment has got CE marked on it it's fine to use no matter what's inside.

End of 'problem'.

Laugh! That means no more from China. Can't even get an item from there that has a UK plug or an adapter with a fuse. So you buy a simple 3amp item from China & you then back it up with the main 32amp fuse box fuse. "Very Dangerous" should be stopped.

CE marking is allowed to be 'self-certified' by the manufacturer so it doesn't mean much anyway. And my saying "fine" implies it will actually work in practice so I should have said "legally ok".

Phil Green30/09/2020 15:33:41
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I've recently had a few email exchanges with Ofcom who have been very helpful in clarifying the situation.
The official view is that there are several frequency bands for non-specific use or data / telemetry use in IR 2030 that could legally be used to control models, including 868 MHz.
For telemetry, some of these bands permit airborne use - which strictly means the transmitter is airborne, such as transmitting telemetry from a model to the ground. Some of the bands allow airborne use and some don’t - again note that 'airborne use' does not mean conventional R/C flying with the transmitter on the ground and a passive receiver in the model - it literally means that the transmitter is the airborne component, ie telemetry not control.

Their main concern is that as with any SRD band there’s the possibility of interference because its shared with other users. Whilst it is permitted to use the other SRD bands for the control of models, the reverse isnt implied - it is not permitted to put devices other than R/C equipment into dedicated model control bands - these remain ours exclusively, so Ofcom see these bands as 'safer' from an interference perspective.

They emphasised that the Jeti option of 902 – 928 MHz for use in the US could not be used here or in Europe because those frequencies have been exclusively authorised for use by public mobile cellular networks in the UK.

Ofcom also said that they intended to review their 'Radio Control Information' page for clarity - they agree that its outdated, unclear, incomplete and needs to be better aligned with the UK FAT.

The conclusion is that within the emission regulations, we can use 868mhz in the UK for model control and telemetry.

Sorted wink

Phil

 

 

Edited By Phil Green on 11/10/2020 16:23:47

Ron Gray30/09/2020 15:43:20
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I'm a bit late to the party but Phil is spot on, both 2.4GHz and 868Mhz can be used for model aircraft control / telemetry. I use 868Mhz as the prime control with 2.4Ghz as the secondary / redundancy on quite  a few models and did a similar check with 'officialdom' last year. I also double checked with T9 as Rich is very knowledgeable on these matters, let's face it, he has to be as he sells this stuff!

Edited By Ron Gray on 30/09/2020 15:43:56

Dickw30/09/2020 16:19:50
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Posted by Phil Green on 30/09/2020 15:33:41:

I've recently had a few email exchanges with Ofcom who have been very helpful in clarifying the situation.
The official view is that there are several frequency bands for non-specific use or data / telemetry use in IR 2030 that could legally be used to control models, including 868 MHz.

................................

They emphasised that the Jeti option of 902 – 928 MHz for use in the US could not be used here or in Europe because those frequencies have been exclusively authorised for use by public mobile cellular networks in the UK.

Jeti are aware of the regs and their "900" band varies according to where in the world their equipment is sold. Details as follows from the Jeti website :-

EU: 863 - 870 MHz

US: 902 - 928 MHz

JP: 918 - 926 MHz

So agreed, you shouldn't buy from the USA for use in Europe.

Dick

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