By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by CML

Warbirds replicas Tempest

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Bob Cotsford23/06/2020 13:10:16
avatar
8646 forum posts
483 photos

Way back in the early 1980s I had a veneered foam Typhoon from some long forgotten range of kits, it was a very similar construction to Richards WR designs though probably more cartoon scale. That was iirc 54" and powered with a Meteor 40 it flew superbly for several years, just like a low wing trainer but with attitude. They all had fixed U/C back then, you soon become blind to the dangling wheels!

Graham Davies 330/06/2020 12:30:13
71 forum posts
44 photos

Got a lot done today. The wings are pretty much done. I have used lightweight glass cloth to reinforce the centre join and will put a second layer on tomorrow. The ailerons are separated and lined with 1/8" balsa. I have completed the servo boxes, so once the second cloth layer is done, they are ready for covering.

fuselage is nearly done. I have carved and shaped the foam decks. The rear deck will not be sheeted, but covered directly with brown paper. I have sheeted the front deck. This is not yet fitted as I have still to cut it in half for a battery hatch. I'm not going to do this until I have glassed the inside of the cowl (awaiting some resin). This will allow me to adjust the height to get an exact fit to the cowling. Richard's idea to make a 'sliding battery box/ motor mount' is brilliant. I will be able to get an exact fit of the spinner backplate to the cowl once this is fitted.

Tail is fitted and drying. I have pre-carved some filler pieces and once these are fitted and the ply deck under the nose, it will also be ready to cover.

And then I need to start making it look like a Tempest!

Great, easy build so far.

Graham

tempest270620-2.jpg

tempest270620-1.jpg

Ron Gray30/06/2020 12:54:42
2235 forum posts
978 photos

Coming along a treat Graham.

Graham Davies 330/06/2020 13:06:34
71 forum posts
44 photos

Thanks Ron.

Yes, it's moving at pace. I have since glassed the inside of the cowl. Well, some went on the cowl, most of it went on me, the cat, and random assorted things I touched and couldn't then let go of. I'd forgotten what a horrible job it is! I can now line up the front of the fuselage and will be then ready to cover.

The wings are finished. I have to say, they are some of the best quality foam wings I've seen. But taking a saw to them to cut the panels for the polyhedral is really scary!

Graham

Ron Gray30/06/2020 13:23:03
2235 forum posts
978 photos

Got to agree with you regarding the quality of the veneered foam wings from Richard, top notch!

Graham Davies 304/07/2020 22:41:22
71 forum posts
44 photos

Evening all.

A bit more progress. The airframe is pretty much done. Sheeted under the chin and lined up the cowl today. Just completed the wing fillets which will just need a few strokes of the sanding block tomorrow. Motor is mounted to the motor/ battery box and just needs lining up to the cowl and gluing into place.

I covered the wing today using Richard's magic brown paper idea. So, how have I got this far without discovering this before? I pasted the paper with slightly thinned PVA, left it for a few moments and then ironed it on. Piece of cake! It irons on really well and goes around curved better than shrink film. Only challenge is a couple of bubbles where I need to inject a little PVA and tack it down. It looks great though and masks a lot of finish challenges that I would otherwise spend ages filling.

Fuselage and control surfaces to cover tomorrow, then a coat of non-shrinking dope, and then onto trying to avoid messing up the paint. Talking of which, I bought some great paint from my employer; Rapid electronics. I got Ambersil grey acrylic primer, which is a pretty good match for the underside, and Plasticote primer which is a darker grey for the top. £6 a can and next day delivery!

Graham

tempest 040720-1.jpg

tempest 040720-3.jpg

RICHARD WILLS05/07/2020 08:49:41
avatar
533 forum posts
78 photos

Looks great Graham . I think most people who have tried the humble brown paper , dont go back to their old ways . Its cheap , simple , adds strength and doesnt smell . If you do get a few bubbles , you have either used pound shop glue (ask Glynn) , watered down good glue too much , or missed a bit when pasting . However all is not lost . Just cut an "H" or rugby goal with the cross bar through the blister . Gently open up the two doors and then rub a little pva in . Finally iron back the doors .

As you say , Graham , it does cover most sins .

Bob Cotsford05/07/2020 08:58:31
avatar
8646 forum posts
483 photos

Absolutely right on the Poundland PVA, I had a couple of bubbles come up on the La7's wingtip where the paper lifted from the block area after the first coat of primer.

A second point to watch out for is Tesco's brown wrapping paper has a fine striped appearance to it, it turns out to be visible in the final painted finish. Only if you look closely but once you know it's there...

Graham Davies 305/07/2020 09:45:17
71 forum posts
44 photos

I've actually gone upmarket and used Waitrose brown paper! Actually the only place locally I could get it! The PVA is a builder's grade and generally good, but clearly not as good as it could be! In fairness, there was one bubble on the underside and 2 on the top, so not widespread. I'll give it some attention later.

I'm really impressed though. A thought struck me whilst I was happily applying paper; I have an Acrowot in the loft awaiting refurbishment. If I sheet the turtle deck, I can cover it in brown paper and give it a warbird paint job. That would pick it out from the crowd!

Ron Gray05/07/2020 11:11:02
2235 forum posts
978 photos

Try greaseproof paper, I recall that PaulJ used this on his WR builds, it can be bought in big rolls (I bought one off Amazon, £10 for 50m) plus has the advantage that it doesn't need sealing prior to paint.

Also don't rule out laminating film, even cheaper and really strong.

Edited By Ron Gray on 05/07/2020 11:12:23

Graham Davies 305/07/2020 23:14:59
71 forum posts
44 photos

Evening all,

Been busy in the garage today, so missed much of the fun on 'the state of the play'...

So, covering pretty much finished. I'm having a few bubble issues, but I'm sure I'll prevail.

Otherwise, it's ready for a coat of non-shrinking dope, and onto paint. I've fixed the motor mount now so the spinner gap is nice and tight.

Not long now...

tempest050720-4.jpg

tempest050720-1.jpg

tempest050720-3.jpg

tempest050720-2.jpg

RICHARD WILLS06/07/2020 08:44:31
avatar
533 forum posts
78 photos

Great job Graham , Its starting to look the part now . The exhaust stacks will be the clincher .

I am pretty sure your bubble problem is down to the glue . I have always stuck to evostik wood glue or more recently Gorilla glue PVA , both with a tiny drop of water to help you spread it on .

Cheap glue always ends up the same .

Now , the best glue for an Apprentice Brown Paper Hanger is available at Band Q . it is made by Unibond , and is called "Super Pva adhesive and sealer" , Comes in a 500ml white and red tin .

The reason its good for the first go , is because its consistency is perfect and its good quality glue .

The other use of PVA/Brown Paper is for covering very tired foamies . Yes , it does add a little weight , but by covering say a Dynam or FMS warbird it will give a whole new life , more strength and the chance to try a different paint job . Dont keep the iron in one place though ,other wise you will melt it .

Graham Davies 306/07/2020 09:03:48
71 forum posts
44 photos

Hi Richard,

The bubbling is not too bad. I did consider calling a halt until I had some other glue, but I experimented with the amount I put on, and thickness and the problem is not too bad. The aileron was an early attempt and is about the worse. I did the wing first and there are 3 bubbled areas on both the top and the bottom, so that leaves a lot that is fine!

It's not the end of the world at this stage as I can spend another evening or two getting these as flat as possible. I will change glues before my next brown paper excursion though.

Haven't looked closely at the positioning of the stacks, but they appear to be half on the cowl. is this right or are they further back?

There are various bumps and blisters on the wing on your model too. I'll look at the drawings and see what I can add.

Then it will be onto the cockpit...

Graham

RICHARD WILLS06/07/2020 09:24:16
avatar
533 forum posts
78 photos

The stacks are ABS just like the cowl , so you can use airfix glue or solvent weld on that section . and just a dab of epoxy at the back .

The stacks should be right on the spinner centre line with the last exhaust stubb actually over the wing . (all the others being in front of the wing when viewed from above) .

The cannon blisters (two for each wing ) are perfectly replicated by medicine spoons with a swipe of filler around the base to blend them in .

The Camo paint will hide any bubbles in the paper so no panic .

Nigel R06/07/2020 09:28:39
avatar
3987 forum posts
722 photos

What's the recommended source for the brown paper itself?

"the best glue for an Apprentice Brown Paper Hanger is available at Band Q . it is made by Unibond , and is called "Super Pva adhesive and sealer" , Comes in a 500ml white and red tin"

I use this stuff as regular building glue for sticking bits of wood together!

Seems to work just fine.

RICHARD WILLS06/07/2020 09:35:09
avatar
533 forum posts
78 photos

Well Nigel , In this case , dont go expensive , Expensive paper seems to be reconstituted so that it can claim to be green or is too thick . Your nasty corner shop paper is almost always the best bet .

I have tried other stuff but brown paper seems the most compliant and forgiving .

Jonathan Sharland06/07/2020 14:26:45
34 forum posts

Graham, as an Aspiring NOB and waiting on Richard's P51 for my first box of balsa I am reading your build with great interest.

One of the many outstanding questions in my mind is how to cover.

I have read and watched a few youtube videos on covering with brown paper but they all tend to be foam and or flying wings.

How did you tackle the covering? How do you work out what sections to cover and in what order etc?

I imagine you try to do wings in 2 parts underside and topside. Horizontal and Vertical stab in similar fashion. But the Fus is the bit I cannot seem to work out in my head how you do it. Any hints tips would be welcome.

Thanks

Jon

Nigel R06/07/2020 14:30:11
avatar
3987 forum posts
722 photos

thanks Richard yes

Graham Davies 306/07/2020 14:51:26
71 forum posts
44 photos

Hi Jon,

I have to confess this is the first time I have covered a model in brown paper. Definitely won't be the last though. It has significant advantages, in the right circumstances. As long as the structure is sheeted (either a veneered foam wing, or a fully sheeted built up structure), it is possible. It gives more strength than a shrink film finish as the dope provides significant surface strength, is easy to apply, and once fitted, stays fitted. It's also MUCH cheaper.

I did the wing with two large pieces, lower side first. It's easy to work from the middle outwards, and use a heat iron as you would film. The heat gun makes it dead easy to get around curves. I 'topped up' the PVA for the edges, just to be sure there would be no lifting. To be honest, not really necessary unless you can see loose areas as once it's on, it won't come off without leaving half of the paper behind.

I did the fuselage fin first, and included the fin fillets and 1/2" of the top side of the horizontal stabiliser. The fuselage underside, the fuselage sides. This was easy enough, and included 1/2" of the lower side of the stab. Then fuselage top and finally underside followed by top side of the stabiliser (really easy as I had already covered the roots above.

Control surfaces all separate, and straightforward.

As Richard says though; get decent glue. I have a few bubbles to attend to. Either cut 'H' slots with a sharp blade and peel back the paper, glue, and iron back down, or a hypodermic and inject a little ova into the bubbles. It's a bit time consuming, but not a big deal.

This is where I'm up to. Next step is a coat of non-shrinking dope, and filling/ sanding, and onto paint. Richard has loads of tips to make this really easy. Im going to spray with acrylics and then wheel in a great mate of mine whose interest is 1/72 scale to a very high standard. He's going to airbrush the panel lines and weathering detail.

Then I have to try to not smash it to pieces!

Good luck; you'll love the kit!

Graham

Kim Taylor06/07/2020 15:12:01
318 forum posts
55 photos
Posted by Nigel R on 06/07/2020 09:28:39:

What's the recommended source for the brown paper itself?

I've got a roll of brown masking paper, as used by automotive body shops, which I intend to use on my current project which I wanted to try the brown paper method on. I had the paper 'in stock' as I used to use it in my work, but from memory I paid less than a tenner for a 200 metre (yes, that's two hundred) roll.

It's quite thin, but I read somewhere that Richard recommends for it to be a similar weight to xmas wrapping paper, which describes this stuff to a tee.

Either cadge some from your local car body shop, or the local car paint supplier will no doubt have something in stock.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
CML
electricwingman 2017
Slec
Sussex Model Centre
Sarik
Advertise With Us
Latest "For Sale" Ads
Has home isolation prompted you to start trad' building?
Q: The effects of Coronavirus

 Yes - for the first time
 Yes - but Ive bashed balsa before
 No - Ive existing projects on the bench
 No - Im strictly an ARTF person

Latest Reviews
Digital Back Issues

RCM&E Digital Back Issues

Contact us

Contact us

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of RCM&E? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!

Find RCM&E!