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Laser Engines development.

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Robin Colbourne07/07/2020 11:20:01
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605 forum posts
17 photos

Jon,

I appreciate that OS used to make a reduction drive, but don't kid yourself that they are simple, if you plan to still use the propeller as the flywheel.

Thielert had no end of trouble putting a reduction drive on what started as a Mercedes A class engine. By the time they got it right, the company was in administration, and is now owned by the Chinese. A friend of mine has a BMW flat twin motorcycle engine in his microlight, and that has a centrifugal clutch between the engine and gearbox to isolate the gears from the destructive idle RPM region.
Robin

Martin Harris07/07/2020 11:21:48
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9405 forum posts
255 photos

At @ £100, a bolt on gearbox conversion would be something I would be very interested in - unfortunately I don't see any way it could be accommodated in my current build [very short nosed Tempest] at this stage so I'm unlikely to be an early customer.

Intrigued by your encouraging news - when will we get an idea of what's developing?

David P Williams07/07/2020 11:31:48
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913 forum posts
318 photos

Jon - I have a Wots Wot XL that currently has a Saito 180 glow ( nasty thing that tries to shake itself and the airframe to bits). I was thinking of re-engining it anyway, so I would be very happy to use this as a testbed for whichever of your projects you think suitable for this model.

Bruce Collinson07/07/2020 12:29:53
542 forum posts

Called Laser Pro, isn't it? 4 galls in my outside mancave waiting for distribution at NLMFC as soon as it stops raining/blowing etc.

BTC

Jon - Laser Engines07/07/2020 12:47:42
5556 forum posts
270 photos

Chris, i didnt know it was on sale in the shops. Are you sure they didnt ship normal laser 5 as this stuff is only available from MT direct as far as i know. If it is the real stuff (laser 5 diet?) they best not sell it to anyone for other engines as they might die.

Robin, the gearbox idea is in the 'thinking out loud stage'. I will worry about the technical aspects later.

Martin, one thing at a time! Right now i have 5 engines to develop and test plus a gearbox to investigate.

David, WWXL is a good test bed. A 180 petrol would do it as would my 'new' 30cc multi on glow. The petrol would need the least number of mods as the 30cc would need you to make a new cowl. That said, the more cylinders the more fun right? Take your pick

Bruce Collinson07/07/2020 12:55:09
542 forum posts

Jon,

Will Sherwood reminded me that they have lots of replacement engines in stock.

I felt it only right to remind him that there weren't any Lasers.

Begs the question though, which I did raise a few days back, if a Laser will run on 7.5% oil, what's so different in an OS or Saito? Of course nobody will ecpect you to endorse it, just observations please.

BTC

David P Williams07/07/2020 13:13:26
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913 forum posts
318 photos

I'd be happy to fly the WWXL without a cowl, unless you want to check cooling etc on a cowled engine. I'm glow only at the moment, so if it was the 180 petrol I'd have to run it on Aspen cos of the stink.

Richard Wills 207/07/2020 13:14:21
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208 forum posts
7 photos

Lasermix 05 Pro low oil is on Leeds site at 16.99 a gallon,

Jon - Laser Engines07/07/2020 13:37:10
5556 forum posts
270 photos
Posted by David P Williams on 07/07/2020 13:13:26:

I'd be happy to fly the WWXL without a cowl, unless you want to check cooling etc on a cowled engine. I'm glow only at the moment, so if it was the 180 petrol I'd have to run it on Aspen cos of the stink.

Cooling is an important factor so we do need to test that. If the engine only works when dangling in the breeze its not much use in a scale model for example. The cowl only needs to be simple. Some balsa sheets formed to make some sort of a cowl, a layer of glass if you want and a bit of paint. Nothing crazy.

Bruce, i dont want to get too far down the rabbit hole on this thread but to be honest i think OS would be fine, saito mayb not. OS use a bronze big end bush like we do so would probably be ok. However, their crank material is different, which grade of bronze is it they use....etc. I cant make any promises so wont even try.

Bruce Collinson07/07/2020 13:38:06
542 forum posts

K.

B

Chris Berry07/07/2020 14:00:45
259 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 07/07/2020 12:47:42:

Chris, i didnt know it was on sale in the shops. Are you sure they didnt ship normal laser 5 as this stuff is only available from MT direct as far as i know. If it is the real stuff (laser 5 diet?) they best not sell it to anyone for other engines as they might die.

Robin, the gearbox idea is in the 'thinking out loud stage'. I will worry about the technical aspects later.

Martin, one thing at a time! Right now i have 5 engines to develop and test plus a gearbox to investigate.

David, WWXL is a good test bed. A 180 petrol would do it as would my 'new' 30cc multi on glow. The petrol would need the least number of mods as the 30cc would need you to make a new cowl. That said, the more cylinders the more fun right? Take your pick

Laser 5 diet...i like it Jon.

Yep I checked with Leeds and they had 8 available, so I ordered 4. The label just shows 5% and hasn't got any details other than the standard Technics branding. Its a little cheaper as well. Invoice says low oil.

MT tell me its been under development/testing for a while and awaits a name. It does clearly state low oil on the website and invoice.

Whichever way, it will fly off the shelves....no pun intended...maybe.

I have been mixing hi oil with methanol to give a low oil mix for about 3 gallons now and my laser twins and singles have run without any noticeable difference other than cleaner!

Jon - Laser Engines07/07/2020 14:22:35
5556 forum posts
270 photos

I checked with MT and the Laser 5 Pro name is a place holder of sorts, but in truth i kinda like it.

If you compare it to a normal bottle of laser 5 is should be quite a pale colour by comparison.

David P Williams07/07/2020 14:29:27
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913 forum posts
318 photos
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 07/07/2020 13:37:10:
Posted by David P Williams on 07/07/2020 13:13:26:

I'd be happy to fly the WWXL without a cowl, unless you want to check cooling etc on a cowled engine. I'm glow only at the moment, so if it was the 180 petrol I'd have to run it on Aspen cos of the stink.

Cooling is an important factor so we do need to test that. If the engine only works when dangling in the breeze its not much use in a scale model for example. The cowl only needs to be simple. Some balsa sheets formed to make some sort of a cowl, a layer of glass if you want and a bit of paint. Nothing crazy.

OK I'm up for the 30cc multi glow then, much more interesting than the single petrol.

Jon - Laser Engines08/07/2020 07:50:49
5556 forum posts
270 photos

Cheers David i will add you to the list

David Davis08/07/2020 08:58:14
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3782 forum posts
724 photos

"Laser 5 Low Oil Mix."

A bit predictable perhaps but informative. wink

Tim Flyer08/07/2020 09:24:18
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1296 forum posts
236 photos

Hi Jon . I also have a WWXL spare which could be used as a test bed for almost anything up to 40cc . What is also an ongoing concern is my DB Spitfire which I’m just starting to build. I’m going to put a build log up on it later. Regarding engine choice for it is an open book . The one thing I am keeping is a split wing, and would rather not go into major wing surgery on it in order to fit a low tank for the laser 180 . If you had reduction gear available I might be able to raise the engine a bit as mentioned or possibly use a petrol 180 . One thing I often wonder is why not make the 180 single bigger maybe 240 or 300 single as a petrol. I think there is masses of demand there too, plus it sounds a fairly simple project.

Jon - Laser Engines08/07/2020 09:52:27
5556 forum posts
270 photos

The way this has worked out is that i need engines for some of my own models and assumed that as the models i am building are relatively common, others would need them as well.

The models in question were a 5th scale 88'' spitfire, 5th scale 89'' mustang, and a DB 80 inch spitfire.

The new 200 (30cc) is intended to suit the DB Spit and things like 1/4 tiger moths, Chipmunks, Stampes and so on. It uses the shorter cylinder of the 100 so the tank sits a little higher than it would with a 180 fitted. Its not much, but it all helps. The slightly smaller 25cc version of this engine is well suited to Mick Reeves Spits, galaxy mustangs (if they still exist), 70-75 inch warbirds/tiger moths and so on. 

The bigger spit and Mustang have 3 options to choose from in the 50-60cc range. More on that as development continues.

The idea is that each will fit within the cowl without mutilation.

 

To clarify again, reduction drives are at the brainstorming stage and are not going to be part of the current round of testing. Consider the engines already mentioned as the 2020 test program, reduction drives next year maybe? I have to design it yet and i am more into finishing off these engine designs first. I only asked the question as i wanted to see if there was enough interest to justify looking into them at all. 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 08/07/2020 09:54:32

Nigel R08/07/2020 10:22:55
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3981 forum posts
714 photos

"The new 200 (30cc)"

are these multis the narrow angle vee you mentioned a while ago?

Jon - Laser Engines08/07/2020 10:56:36
5556 forum posts
270 photos
Posted by Nigel R on 08/07/2020 10:22:55:

"The new 200 (30cc)"

are these multis the narrow angle vee you mentioned a while ago?

Cant give too many public details at the moment as there are other things i need to consider and i have been asked by someone outside of Laser to keep certain details quiet for the time being. All will become clear as to why but dont worry, all will be revealed.

Cuban808/07/2020 11:25:31
2986 forum posts
1 photos

I'm not sure that calling the new fuel 'Low Oil' is such a good idea, even if the name matches the description of the product.

Psychology might put people off in that 'Low Oil' will be regarded by many as new, risky, regarded as experimental, not what we're used to, an unknown given years of pouring 20% through engines etc etc.

A name with a more positive ring should be thought up IMHO - same product but with an upbeat swing! I'll leave that to those with better imaginations.

I won't go into detail, but many years ago a company that I worked for as an engineer, greatly improved one of its products by including within the device something that in normal everyday use would be regarded as hazardous. The machines that were improved became known as what I'll now call 'A' type versions and our customers knew that substance 'A' was usually something nasty in normal day to day life if one came into contact with it. Sales fell away and subsequently we were instructed never to refer to substance 'A' again, but to something else that I don't recall now, but was much more neutral and non-threatening.

There never was any risk or danger to anyone, of course, substance 'A' could never pose a risk to the user when integrated into the equipment, but merely its name was good enough to cause panic.

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