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Martin Baker MB5

Tim Ruck's Nationals Model

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Nightflyer06/07/2020 22:55:30
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Having finally got round to completing my read of the July issue and looking at the Next Issue teaser at the back of the mag there was a picture and snippet about Tim Ruck's Martin Baker MB5 model and I have to admit that I cannot wait to get the August issue now to read more.

The picture reminded me of Tim's original Class 2 scale model from the 70's that won the Nationals flown by some guy called 'Tom Puck' - as reported by a certain magazine at the time .

At the time I was a teenager learning to fly in the Hastings club and Tim not only designed the trainer that myself and my father both learnt to fly on but what impressed me was the MB5 and seeing this model flown and to have it at my parents home (pride of place and maximum security) in the lounge because of a model display the club was putting on.

I look forward to reading the article next month - but an equally interesting article could be written about Tim's interest in model flying.

Ray Wood 407/07/2020 07:07:49
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Yes I remember Tim's original MB5 at an early flying show in 1982 at Graveney Kent, run by the Canterbury club, Chris Foss was flying a Dalotel, and me flying my MR Hurricane badly 😲

Looks very Mustang like with that radiator, did it have a contra rotating prop on the full-size ??

Regards Ray

J D 807/07/2020 07:56:48
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John Marlin an aircraft enthusiast in the US has built a full size replica and it has a contra prop.

perttime07/07/2020 10:56:05
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It is funny that having the radiator under the belly of any aircraft makes people think that it "looks like a Mustang".

Nigel R07/07/2020 12:04:03
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Personally I can't really see the Mustang in the MB5 much... MB5 has short stubby wings and a long, long fuselage, most everything a different shape. The MB5 was quite a thing, very sleek. But times changed, and jets were the thing, they all had 100mph on the MB5.

The MB5 must make a great model. No problem with balance. Nice long moment arm, wide U/C, etc.

Edited By Nigel R on 07/07/2020 12:04:46

Bob Cotsford07/07/2020 12:29:02
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Back in the '70s or '80s someone did market a kit for the MB5, it might have been Rojair but I wouldn't swear to it. I've got a feeling it was that style of quickbuild kits using lots of veneered foam chunks to build up the general shape. Yet another kit I couldn't afford at that time!

Nightflyer07/07/2020 12:31:18
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Posted by Ray Wood 4 on 07/07/2020 07:07:49:

Yes I remember Tim's original MB5 at an early flying show in 1982 at Graveney Kent, run by the Canterbury club, Chris Foss was flying a Dalotel, and me flying my MR Hurricane badly 😲

Looks very Mustang like with that radiator, did it have a contra rotating prop on the full-size ??

Regards Ray

Yes Ray, the full size had contra prop. Tim's original model was a lovely plane on the ground and in the air. Tim went on to build the FW Ta152 as the successor model for competitions and that looked excellent on the ground and in the air. I remember Chris' Dalotel, I think I liked that more than his Loving Wayne Love.

Regards

Paul

Simon Chaddock07/07/2020 12:44:31
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Ray Wood 4

Yes the full size did have contra props and initially the highest ever power RR Griffon at 2340 hp that gave it a superb performance.

The MB5 was considered the pinnacle of piston fighter development not only because it had a good performance but that it incorporated features that would be a benefit in service like its simple pneumatically operated undercarriage, the layout of the wing ammunition boxes to speed reloading and big removable fuselage panels to aid servicing. Even the cockpit layout was considered good enough to be adopted as a 'standard' for future fighter aircraft.

Of course no matter how good the prototype was by the time of its first flight in mid 1944 it could not complete with the ultimate speed of the jet aircraft then in development.

Its cancellation was a great disappointment to Martin Baker so they concentrated on the development of ejection seats and they have proved pretty good at designing those as well.

Nigel R07/07/2020 15:29:16
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By comparison, Supermarine managed to turn a trick on the Spiteful development and re-use bits of it as the Attacker.

I'm not sure Martin Baker had the necessary production capability or experience to put the MB5 into proper service?

Nightflyer08/07/2020 10:45:03
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True enough what both Ray and Nigel say. MB would be ok for post war production but when you look at the production rate for the likes of fighters such as the P51 or P47 or even the Spitfire MB would struggle.

As for Supermarine using Spiteful parts for the Attacker a number of British, US and Russian early aircraft used parts of piston aircraft as it was easy to keep time and costs down.

Getting back to the MB5 it has never been modelled much although Tim's rc examples and a few free flight rubber control line or electric RTP examples have existed over the years.

kc08/07/2020 11:33:19
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I think it was not Rojair but Flywel Models of Barnstaple who did a kit for the Martin Baker in the 1980's. They also did a Turbulent kit.    Review of the Flywel MB5 in RCModelWorld January 1985.   Model was 62 inch for a .60

Shouldn't somebody do a new design for an MB5 soon?

Edited By kc on 08/07/2020 12:02:20

J D 808/07/2020 13:03:01
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Another of those " looks like a Mustang " prototypes was the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-15 built towards war's end in Australia , also Griffon powered. Not seen it modelled but someone in Aus may have done so.

perttime08/07/2020 13:54:58
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Posted by J D 8 on 08/07/2020 13:03:01:

Another of those " looks like a Mustang " prototypes was the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-15 built towards war's end in Australia , also Griffon powered. Not seen it modelled but someone in Aus may have done so.

It "looks like a Mustang" because radial engines were not available, so a Griffon had to be used, instead.

Bob Cotsford08/07/2020 15:21:05
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Posted by kc on 08/07/2020 11:33:19:

I think it was not Rojair but Flywel Models of Barnstaple who did a kit for the Martin Baker in the 1980's. They also did a Turbulent kit. Review of the Flywel MB5 in RCModelWorld January 1985. Model was 62 inch for a .60

Shouldn't somebody do a new design for an MB5 soon?

Edited By kc on 08/07/2020 12:02:20

1985! I'm surprised it was as late as that.

J D 808/07/2020 15:40:54
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Many interesting/promising airframe and engine projects came to an early end due to the arrival of the jet engine.

The Rolls Royce Crecy was a 26ltr V12 supercharged two stroke, sleeve valve, petrol fuel injected engine and fully developed would have produced many thousands of HP. Very Complex when compared to the jet turbine.

Nigel R08/07/2020 15:47:31
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Jet turbines are not without their complexities wink

From the perspective of the time, perhaps those airframes ceased to be promising or interesting?

Supersonic was on the horizon with a whole different set of aerodynamic rules...

J D 808/07/2020 16:03:22
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Did the Americans not have a turboprop development of the F84 Thunderstreak that was supersonic or was it just the prop that went supersonic?

Nightflyer08/07/2020 21:41:21
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There were a number of designs about either on paper or prototype or mock up by the various aircraft companies both allied and axis. There was a fairly good book about back in the 80's which detailed a sizeable number that I had from my local library back about 10 years ago. From memory North American had two interesting designs one utilising P51 wings and tailplane and a new fuselage for jet power.

An MB5 plan would be good for sure.

Timo Starkloff10/07/2020 22:07:13
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Concerning the XF84-H, a little bit off topic but worth a read and funny, too:
https://www.airspacemag.com/how-things-work/zwrrwwwbrzr-4846149/

Timo

Edited By Timo Starkloff on 10/07/2020 22:07:27

J D 810/07/2020 22:38:01
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Thanks for the info Timo on the XF84-H, interesting stuff. I must have read the Aeroplane Monthly feature in 77 mentioned in the text.

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