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Sellers beware!

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SIMON CRAGG04/10/2020 11:28:17
682 forum posts
5 photos

In July, I sold a decent model and engine via the BMFA site for £130.

The buyer paid by Paypal, and included all his contact details and address etc.

I transferred the funds to my bank.

The buyer arranged a courier, and after considerable effort I packaged up the model ready for collection.

The courier arrived and took the model.

To date, I had heard nothing, so assumed all ok.

Out of the blue yesterday, I got an invoice from Paypal for £144.

After contacting Paypal, it turned out that the buyer had asked his bank to stop the payment, as he had not authorised it.

I tried contacting the buyer to establish what the issues were,, but my e.mails were returned.

His bank obtained the funds from Paypal leaving me to settle the debt.

Paypal were very sympathetic, but apart from refunding me the £14 chargeback fee could do little else.

I have now instigated a case with Action Fraud, as otherwise there appears there is not much else I can do.

Shaun Walsh04/10/2020 12:39:34
534 forum posts
62 photos

There is something else you can do, make a claim through the small claims court, nobody in their right mind would want a County Court Judgement ruining their credit record for the sake of £144.

J D 804/10/2020 12:43:58
1758 forum posts
88 photos

Barsteward, Get back to Paypal again. It seems one has to make a fuss to get things sorted today.

kc04/10/2020 13:03:12
6925 forum posts
175 photos

In effect someone has stolen the model, so put the model details here in case the theif attempts to sell it. ( I assume the theif is not the buyer but someone who obtained the buyers bank details)

Tomtom3904/10/2020 13:09:10
708 forum posts
1 photos

Could I suggest that those using the BMFA Classifieds, should not disclose their email and phone numbers and just allow contact via the messaging service. I speak from experience.

Simon, have you been in contact with Andy Symons at the BMFA . He is very helpful.

SIMON CRAGG04/10/2020 13:17:48
682 forum posts
5 photos

There is no more Paypal can do, as they explained in great detail, they were just handling the funds, and were good enough to return the chargeback costs to me.

I have taken out small claims against a client in the past, it was a very stressful undertaking, so that's a non starter for the sum involved.

I am banking on Action Fraud helping me out, as I am led to believe they take a very dim view of this sort of thing irrespective of the amount involved.

Paypal confirmed that this does happen from time to time, but is unusual.

Worst case, I might have just have to write it off and learn from it.

Its the last time I will ever post a model, next time its buyer collect or nothing.

Former Member04/10/2020 13:40:09
1020 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

John Tee04/10/2020 13:45:50
950 forum posts
77 photos

Could you not involve the courier as they must know where they delivered the model to. They may say they are unable to give details due to privacy rules but maybe Action Fraud could take that up.


editted for bad spelling


Edited By John Tee on 04/10/2020 13:46:42

SIMON CRAGG04/10/2020 13:49:05
682 forum posts
5 photos

Doc, If I understand all this correctly it would be easy to:

Purchase item and pay by Paypal.

Get the goods.

Wait for the transaction to show on your bank statement.

Contact your bank and tell them you did not authorise the payment.

After a bit of a delay, bank pays you.

You end up with the goods for nothing.

Its probably a bit more complicated than than that, but as far as I can see that's the gist of it.

Not sure where this leaves me when it comes to selling yet more modelling items!.

SIMON CRAGG04/10/2020 14:00:45
682 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by John Tee on 04/10/2020 13:45:50:

Could you not involve the courier as they must know where they delivered the model to. They may say they are unable to give details due to privacy rules but maybe Action Fraud could take that up.


editted for bad spelling

I don't think the issue is that the item was not delivered, more that the buyer did not authorise the payment, which to put it mildly is very odd, given the details they attached to the paypal payment (name and address etc).

Edited By John Tee on 04/10/2020 13:46:42

Denis Watkins04/10/2020 14:00:48
4688 forum posts
135 photos

Dreadful experience Simon really.

PayPal do guarantee transactions where there is " Proof of posting" to the Address PayPal state on their invoice.

It is when we go " off piest " that cracks appear.

PayPal customers get a rating, and delivery instructions are given dependent on the rating.

If these are followed, then no surprises later.

jonryan04/10/2020 14:14:42
165 forum posts
12 photos

NEVER use 'friends & family' in either direction unless it's someone you know and trust. A stranger asking you to do so is an instant red flag.

Sounds as if you have name, address, and presumably you know who the courier was.

Plenty there for legal action.

Send a 'Letter Before Action' :

Paul Marsh04/10/2020 14:55:00
4132 forum posts
1247 photos

I trust non-one. Best thing to

Adrian Smith 104/10/2020 15:19:47
2493 forum posts
1276 photos

I really feel for you predicament. Firstly, I have not sold anything via BMFA so I am not qualified to comment. However, I have sold numerous airframes via eBay and at the very beginning I researched the pitfalls. One of which was never to use a courier for pickup. So if I sell a big airframe it is always buyer collects and if they are too far away then that model is not for them. I have folks drive from Kent up to Suffolk and further so you know they are genuine.

I always offer cash on collection which eBay allows for big items so the the buyer know what they are getting before taking it away. Both parties sign a receipt/sale of goods. Whether that is much protection I don’t know, but I have not had a problem. By the way I also have a bank note checker as extra insurance. Some collectors are happy to pay in advance via PayPal of collection, but I given them the choice. I really hope you get some recompense.

Martin McIntosh04/10/2020 16:00:23
3701 forum posts
1294 photos

I got well and truly caught out by Paypal too once. I ordered a s/h portable TV which was delivered in a sorry state with the box it was in collapsed and water pouring out of it. Unfortunately I had it delivered to work and the numbskull in the stores signed for it. Paypal said to send it back at my own expense which I duly did but could get no response from the seller, at which point PP closed the case and wanted nothing else to do with it, so I had no Telly and no 50 quid.

I did however recently gain a £150 diesel heater for my shed which arrived damaged. The seller wanted me to return it to China although he was UK based. They refused to respond further so I repaired it and it is working great.

fly boy304/10/2020 16:13:46
3804 forum posts
22 photos

I feel for you Simon. Just wondered if you would have had better protection if buyer paid by credit card ? I always use PP, but this post has me thinking.

i12fly04/10/2020 17:08:10
680 forum posts
23 photos

I hope you can sort something out on this Simon, I can understand how you feel. There are some nasty criminals about!

I once sold a model on ebay and said 'cash on collection only', but the buyer just paid by paypal. It raised alarm bells as I'd heard this could be a scam so I told the person he must bring proof of identity when collecting, and took his car registration too. In the event he was genuine, but it was annoying that it cost me paypal charges too on what was an item sold cheaply

Andy Joyce04/10/2020 17:10:18
420 forum posts
69 photos

Out of interest how can you protect yourself from this type of fraud.

SIMON CRAGG04/10/2020 18:09:51
682 forum posts
5 photos

I must be going through a bad patch...........

I sold another model on e.bay two weeks ago.

It was collect only, and the buyer paid by Paypal ok.

As yet the buyer has yet to come and get it.

Last week, he said he would be here this afternoon to collect.

Guess what has happened?.


Time for a Stella or six I reckon!.

Former Member04/10/2020 20:51:00
1020 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

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