208 forum posts
Hi Peter, I find your response to be somewhat rude and patronising - you say "I suspect he is conditioned by the price he paid at the time". It might be worth checking before you make false assumptions. Assuming things can be a dangerous pastime as many will tell you.
My comments were nothing to do with the previous price I paid but my view of the marketplace in this example. If it helps I bought the Acrowot at our club auction which was selling off models donated to the club after a member died, with the monies raised going to his family.
As a professional Mechanical Engineer with years of experience in manufacturing in both mass and small scale production I am sure I have some expertise. Whilst I accept there are clearly other costs they are unlikely to be high at a unit level nor require highly skilled labour. Moreover, given the life of this product todate and it's sales it is likely, although I don't have the facts, that start up costs have long been absorbed or production would have ceased. If this is not the case and prices are rising because they haven't been absorbed the product may be becoming no longer financially viable and be nearing the end of it's natural life in its current form.
Patronisingly again, you state " I suspect the OP would prefer not to spend the time involved in repair". Well if you take time to read the thread you will see that I opted for a repair, which given my background I am both more than capable of and happy to undertake.
Finally, as your trend of patronisition continues you finish by saying " I fear the OP will continue to post about the ridiculous price of ready to go stuff". I don't post that often and you are entitled to your view but maybe you should stop being so pompous about other people's posts.
|Former Member||23/11/2020 14:32:05|
|393 forum posts|
[This posting has been removed]
|Nigel R||23/11/2020 15:20:15|
4396 forum posts
I think you're reading way too much into Peter's post.
"What I can tell you all is that no one is getting fat out of selling foam Wot 4's in this country, neither Ripmax or any retailer"
Now that I can believe.
Edited By Nigel R on 23/11/2020 15:20:34
|Martin McIntosh||23/11/2020 15:40:38|
3697 forum posts
I am fussy about the types of c.a. I use and bought the last 2oz bottle of thin Zap from my LMS long ago. No further stocks and no choice but to go on line.
Ever tried Aldi/Lidl coke? Foul stuff. I shop there for most other things though. The point about Sainsburys was that I was in the shop anyway because they had an item I wanted and was hardly likely to drive 3 miles to a budget shop to save 80p even if they had the genuine stuff so I did without rather than be plainly ripped off. Further to that, Tesco charge £20 for JD to go with the Coke one day then £35 the next.
Back to foamies, I seem to recollect that the price of a Wotever was about£110 a couple of years ago. I suppose that armchair cheque book `modellers` will just pay whatever the price is now anyway.
|Bob Cotsford||23/11/2020 15:52:00|
8942 forum posts
If you think a carpenter is expensive try hiring an IT consultant!
I bet intercontinental transport, warehousing, distribution, high street shop rental, staffing and advertising costs dwarf the out of the gate factory costs by many orders, even after tooling, design and assembly costs are taken into account.
Martin, I'm with you on Aldi/Lidl food products but their tools are hard to beat in terms of value for money. Poundland and Wikes CAs are effective glues but you do notice the increased nastiness of the fumes from them compared to eg Zap.
|Pete B - Moderator||23/11/2020 17:11:30|
7700 forum posts
Gents, please bear in mind that the written word is all too easily misconstrued sometimes and I'm sure no slight was intended by any post on this thread. However, responding by attacking the poster isn't the way we go about it here, either.
Be polite to each other, please......
|Tim Flyer||23/11/2020 17:17:49|
1398 forum posts
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned on this thread is that most modellers actually enjoy the building process and actually obtain a sense of achievement /satisfaction in finishing a model of higher quality.
The quick to put together foam planes do not have this added benefit so can in some ways be said to be lacking (or more expensive) in terms of reward for the monetary outlay.
11863 forum posts
Another CEng, the sort of engineer that does not know there way around a dishwasher repair, although recognised as an engineer in the EU.
Some of the points being made about remuneration, will almost certainly will be subject to realignment, during and after Covid. Just as the remuneration of labour in other countries. People in the building trade where I used to live would have bitten your hand, together with half your arm to some of the sums indicated. Here the charges are very high in comparison. Even in the UK there are those who do comparatively, even significantly better than others. I can only reflect, that as a engineer in Germany, comparative to a Woodworker My income would have been a healthy multiple. Remuneration does vary significantly around the world for a variety of reasons, some understandable, others apparently due to the incomprehensible.
It will be the same in the whole of the modelling trade, with constantly changing cost structures, both within the UK and world wide. At present, the change is probably very quick.
It is probably those of pre retirement age who at present will be subject to a significant change in both income and what remains as disposable. Into the future all of us will feel the change. Those who think that they can just pass on their losses,or expectations, could find resistance that will further erode their business model. With great trepidation, I see the future for many of being one of redundancy for many, failed business and so on. Us old ones lived through an era of massive government, or better seen as National debt, generated by WW2, we have Covid. The implications of just this had massive impact on the economy, what ever party was in power, for decades.
So is £200 to much, I suspect it was a price point set pre Covid, post Covid, time will tell. I do anticipate that some distributors ceasing to trade, particularly if many of the remaining MS close. I guess and it is a guess, that Internet trading will become dominant. What impact on prices this would bring, I do not know. I just see us (in the UK) becoming even more niche.
|David Ashby - Moderator||23/11/2020 18:53:52|
11217 forum posts
Two posts deleted for rudeness.
Pete B's message above refers.
Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 23/11/2020 18:55:11
|Former Member||23/11/2020 18:59:15|
|1022 forum posts|
[This posting has been removed]
|john stones 1 Moderator||23/11/2020 18:59:27|
11908 forum posts
Lockdown blues folks ? Lighten up eh.
|707 forum posts|
My last Wot4 Foam-E cost me £130 delivered from Kings Lynn Model shop (21/2 tears ago) , excellent value I thought. It's now shown at £137.00 still VG value in my view.
9591 forum posts
Good value is in the eye of the purchaser. I’m not a good builder, but I thoroughly enjoy renovating an old airframe someone else has built.
Some people wouldn’t worry over a £35/ month phone contract ( £420/year), try and get them to spend that on a secondhand airframe! Personally I could quite happily live without a phone....I’m told I need one by Mrs Cymaz
|Peter Jenkins||24/11/2020 00:00:25|
|1724 forum posts|
Neil67 - re-read the 4th sentence in your OP and then look in the mirror and decide whether you were being either unreasonable or defamatory. I merely responded to your words. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
|Doctor Chinnery||24/11/2020 00:52:42|
|129 forum posts|
Oh dearie dearie me - have some of the congregation stopped taking their tablets? It's a hobby - remember! If you are obsessed with what everything cost to get what you're flying into the air it's going to take the all fun out of it.
The foamy AcroWot was one of the nicest models I've ever played with ( in calm weather ) tho' on a less than perfect patch it was easy to separate the fuselage from the U/C when returning to our rather lumpy terra firma. Building and fitting out a Chris Foss buildityourself AcroWot is going to cost a great deal more than the foamy - but as mentioned above,the building experience produces entirely different degree of satisfaction from the mere assembly of the foamy version.
In retrospect - all that matters is not perceived VFM (value for money - obvs!), it's SPP (smiles or satisfaction per pound). In fact the S could equally, or better, refer to Serotonin - that Condor Moment - for older parishioners.The ratio is always in favour of something you built over a period of weeks or months, rather than assembled between chores at a weekend .
1083 forum posts
I have no idea why some have got a bit hot under the collar about this. It just illustrates that it is a broad hobby and different people get different pleasures from it. I do however wonder about the future of the hobby, will it burn itself out Towards the end of the last century we saw the arrival of the ARTF wonderful models, cheap and ready to go followed by the foamy even more ready to go. This must have caused a big boost to the hobby in this fast food world. It would have attracted those who had not served the apprenticeship that many of us did and those who lacked the tools and building space. If those models disappear as they appear to be doing , what next to attract new blood?
|Tim Flyer||24/11/2020 09:30:43|
1398 forum posts
I think lockdown has encouraged a number to build that hadn’t tried it before, or return to it. Time is obviously the biggest issue.
As mentioned by others models are a luxury rather than a necessity so budgets quickly shrink in times of financial stress. Interestingly some of the “golden years” of modelling still seemed to coincide with a period of a slow post war economy.
People are resourceful and find ways of adapting to whatever the situation.
Edited By Tim Flyer on 24/11/2020 09:33:42
|Former Member||24/11/2020 09:37:15|
|393 forum posts|
[This posting has been removed]
|Tim Flyer||24/11/2020 09:49:06|
1398 forum posts
Agreed.. I think we need to shift to a society where craft skills are properly valued and we do not waste resources due to buy and throwaway mentality.
The Far East will not forever have excess productive capacity to exchange for $,€,£.
They will have their own domestic demand to satisfy.
Edited By Tim Flyer on 24/11/2020 09:51:58
|Jon - Laser Engines||24/11/2020 10:42:33|
|5738 forum posts|
Although a tad off topic the comments about waste got my brain ticking.
If you take a standard artf model like a 60 inch wooden frame acrowot or whatever, how much waste is left over after we are done building? The box, all the plastic from parts individually wrapped, and all the sub standard hardware we just throw in the landfill. I wish artf's came with no hardware at all as it would save cost and save a great deal of waste.
Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 24/11/2020 10:47:51
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