|Piers Bowlan||05/12/2020 07:26:40|
2353 forum posts
Fact:- Polio has been eradicated in India since 2014 due to vaccination (The last case was 2011 - Source; W.H.O.) There have been problems with the oral version of the vaccine in India but historically that has been 1 in 2.7 million vaccinations (source; W.H.O.) In fact the only countries in the world where polio hasn't been eradicated are Pakistan, Nigeria and Afghanistan. (Source; WHO) Polio used to kill and cripple millions globally prior to the vaccination .
Step into an aeroplane or car, walk down a flight of stairs, light up a fag or pour a glass of wine. With all these things there is risk but it is so small that we all do them. With life there is risk. You talk about a 'cost benefit equation' Gonzo, exactly right, the 'risk' of vaccination is vanishingly small compared with the benefit.
As for 'the government playing sneaky'... Once a Covid 19 vaccination is widely available, no one should have the right to risk other peoples health/life by traveling in an aeroplane un-vaccinated. I think that is fair.
690 forum posts
Assuming the vaccine works (obviously all reports say it is), I will certainly take the risk of having it. In my opinion that risk far outweighs the cost, in many ways, of this pandemic.
I will then be protected from those that exercise their right to choose not to be vaccinated. So, those who do not get vaccinated can only affect me in 2 ways:
a) financially - the cost of the NHS treating those that choose to opt out and get infected (same argument for any self-inflicted health issue of course!)
b) if there are enough opting out to result in a continued impact from the virus.
Paradoxically, it is better for everyone (including Gonzo) for Gonzo to be part of as small a majority as possible as that naturally reduces the risk of infection.
I can see that some organisations may choose to try and 'force' vaccinations, but my simplistic brain thinks this would be a violation of human rights. And even though the current government maintains the ability to surprise in their decision making (before any debate starts, I am not posing any political bias), I would be astonished if they ever tried to make it mandatory. Of course, some organisations may choose to make vaccination a rule of entry to membership, but I personally doubt it due to potential legal challenges and associated costs.
Just my two-pennurth with no deprecating comments so hopefully no offence caused....
|Piers Bowlan||05/12/2020 09:34:52|
2353 forum posts
Any UK airline and specifically the Captain, can refuse carriage to any passenger provided it is not on the grounds of race, sex, gender or age. An individual is at liberty to make a legal challenge but unless a law is passed in the UK to prohibit discrimination against unvaccinated persons they will be wasting their time and money as far as airline travel is concerned.
Just my two-pennurth!
PS. The main driver for the international spread of the Covid19 virus is airline travel, so having a travel ban on unvaccinated persons makes quite a bit of sense. To me, at any rate.
|Gary Murphy 1||05/12/2020 11:11:37|
|490 forum posts|
|john stones 1 Moderator||05/12/2020 11:43:09|
11962 forum posts
|Engine Doctor||05/12/2020 12:04:34|
2725 forum posts
Our Hospitals are full of Covid patients and other who are seriously ill with other illnesses like cancer who cant get there treatment. will they be marked as Covid deaths , probably not.
So why cant the Covid patients be moved to the Nightingale hospitals so that mainstream Hospitals can carry on treating other illnesses ? .
Simple really , due to previous governments of any party removing funding from the NHS by stealth, we now have a staff shortage of doctors and qualified nurses by the thousands. So no one to man the Nightingale Hospitals . Yes all kept very quiet as it usually is when a government is embarrassed.
|Gary Manuel||05/12/2020 13:12:58|
2475 forum posts
Those of you who think that it is ok to not have the jab because it's your choice and will not affect anyone else are simply wrong.
Edited By Gary Manuel on 05/12/2020 13:14:49
1412 forum posts
Well it's obvious that some did not even bother to fully listen/watch the video and then went on to quote the WHO propaganda.
For a death to be classified 'covid' you have to have tested positive in the past 28 days, your corpse tests positive or 'covid' is mention somewhere in the medical notes. You can fall off a building, drown or even be run over by a steam roller and be classed as a 'covid' death if the bizarre criteria are met. There have been cases where people have died in accidents but the accident insurance will not pay out because they have been classified a 'covid' death. The PCR test goes on to support and magnify this false data. It is not 'covid' specific and responds to all corona virus genetic material, partial or even inactive. The cycle count used to boost up the genetic material under test should be limited to no more than 35 for any degree of confidence in the result. Many labs here, on the continent and in the USA use up to 45. The man who developed the test is on video record saying the test should NOT be used for screening but only as a diagnostic aid in patients that are displaying symptoms. The PCR test is grossly inaccurate giving many false positives. Information abounds on this if you care to investigate. From this it can easily be seen that the whole crisis is a pack of cards built on foundations of sand. Don't misunderstand me, I am not denying 'covid' or in any way making light of the very real tragedy of those who have died. But, there has been and continues to be a massive and contrived over exaggeration of the death rate and infection rate via the death criteria and inappropriate use of an inaccurate test. Is it coincidence that deaths from other causes fell dramatically as 'covid' deaths rose, flu especially?
This false data has been used to drive the rhetoric that has led to the actions taken. Actions that to my mind and those of many serious scientists and data analysts appear to have more to do with people and population control than disease control. I could post links but as I've found in the past people now just 'believe' as if it's become some sort of religion.
No one ever called for vaccination certificates, or even thought about such things, in the past to allow you to access/use UK facilities for diseases:- Flu (10,000 's excess deaths every winter) Winter Flu Deaths, measles, mumps, hepatitis, meningitis, diphtheria, etc. All are endemic here along with many others. The true data about 'covid' does not justify such a measure.
Nightingale in London only had 86 patients in total.
My local hospital sent nurses home on full pay back in the first 'house arrest' period because they had nothing to do.
NHS staff shortages - mainly due to use of inaccurate PCR test giving false positives causing many, and those they may have been in contact with, to self isolate. In recent weeks there was approx 70,000 off due to this.
The Astra Zeneca vaccine much the same as the other two but uses mDNA (messenger DNA). No one is messing with my DNA using a very new technology on the back of such a week reason as 'covid'.
I quite expect from the attitudes expressed here and elsewhere that I will become the modern day equivalent of the heretic/witch of the middle ages and have the 'mob' howling for my blood.
I've been disparagingly called a 'conspiracy theorist' and to put on my tin foil hat in the past. But, 12 - 15 months back if I'd have said to you next year people will willingly agree to be subjected to house arrest for 12 weeks and then for further periods, agree to not travel where they want when they want, to not associate with who they want when they want even in their own home, would not be allow to cross county boundaries(Wales) with police camera vans checking, have police chiefs state they will be checking peoples shopping baskets at supper markets to make sure they have only purchased essential items, have police rigorously enforce no entry onto the beach even in non tourist location where I am, have police drones follow walkers in the peaks, people would be convinced to wear ineffective pieces of cloth across their face in the mistaken belief that they would stop the virus, have another police chief state he would force entry into homes at Christmas if he had information the 'allowed' numbers were being exceeded, be told that pubs and restaurants can only stay open until 18:00hrs and only serve non alcoholic drinks(the virus can tell the time and if your drinking alcohol??), etc. The list goes on and on. Well guess what it would not have been a conspiracy theory although it sure would have sounded like a paranoid conspiracy theory.
But, people are easily convinced by officialdom. The main thing I can suggest is don't voluntarily sit down in front of the psychological condition equipment, the TV and soak up all the fearmongering propaganda push out at you. I've not watch broadcast TV for some time.
Disparaging condemnation coming my way in lorry loads no doubt.
|SIMON CRAGG||05/12/2020 17:36:43|
|690 forum posts|
For what its worth, I am keen to get my vaccinations asap.
Seventy years old, but luckily no health issues at all.
If I need a passport or some sort of "Covid Visa", no problem, just tell me where to sign.
Just hoping we can just move on, and get on with our "Fun" hobby, and leave this sorry saga in the past.
293 forum posts
Gonzo, well said, you and I are in total agreement. People really do need to look at what is going on in their local hospitals, mine Bournemouth, is deserted.
I had an appointment there last week, a flow test and an ultrasound, I didn't have to pay for the car park as I was in and out within 20mins........
|J D 8||05/12/2020 18:56:14|
1771 forum posts
I recon the mods need to shut this post before I have a rant about Iguanas and get sent to the naughty corner.
|Brian Hammond||05/12/2020 20:10:54|
|419 forum posts|
I feel we should all be quite thankful as the moment we are born something is trying to kill us.
|Andrew Calcutt||05/12/2020 20:37:05|
75 forum posts
Well said gonzo,you totally correct,
|Lima Hotel Foxtrot||05/12/2020 20:38:55|
427 forum posts
There's a lot of tin-foil hat action going on in this thread.
|john stones 1 Moderator||05/12/2020 20:45:47|
11962 forum posts
People are being lied to ?
Why ? Who's behind it ? What's the objective ?
|Geoff S||05/12/2020 20:45:55|
|4055 forum posts|
Gonzo, I assume your position is that there should be no research into cures for the current pandemic and we should simply ignore it because, in any case it's a hoax and doesn't actually exist. I suppose it's view but not one I'd support.
If you haven't watched any mainstream news then presumably your research has been done by going to original sources. (obviously you wouldn''t take any notice of so-called social media, would you, as there's no evidence people on there are any better informed than (say) the BBC or goverment spokes-people). You've read peer reviewed papers, studied the research, and taken account of people who've been working and studying the field for many years and presumably could be considered experts. I mean it takes a lot of work to write a PHd thesis let alone do the work that enables it. I've read a few PHd theses and they're hard work, even in my own field. I admire your effort. I just wonder what your degree is? I assume a medical subject since you seem familiar with RNA and DNA and how they are related.
Do you think Jemmer should have ígnored the fact that milkmaids never got smallpox? He, after all invented the idea of vaccination. Without his starting the work smallpox would still be killing millions every year and scarring more rather than be eradicated. Polio is almost defeated, too as a result of vaccination. Waste of time? I remember when the Salk vaccine was approved in the 1960s (?) it was widely celebrated. If people had refused to take it, polio would still rife and there would still be victims consigned to iron lungs, viewing the world through a mirror.
My father suffered from osteo-TB. As teenager in the 1920s he had the top of his femur removed and pinned to his pelvis so he had no hip and one leg 6" shorter than the other. As a result he wore a surgical boot all his life and suffered great back pain for much of it. Fortunately medical research has almost eliminated TB. There were lots of TB sanatoria when I was young. They're all gone now, thnak goodness.
So do I think you're wrong? Yes. I'm older than you and there's a chance I'll be offered the vaccine very soon and I'll take it like a shot. There is a very slim possibilty that it'll harm me but the chances are far greater that Covid 19 will harm me more. I'll probably be dead sometime quite soon (I'll be 81 next month) but a death being unable to breathe doesn't sound like much fun.
|Former Member||05/12/2020 21:42:32|
[This posting has been removed]
1412 forum posts
Mark, Yep sure is. It's more than a little 'woke'!
I'll be back tomorrow with a few comments. Before I leave those in Wales can look forward to credit card size proof of vaccine which I guess will control ones abilities to do many things, maybe even buy food. As Henry Kissinger said "control the oil and you control the country. control the food and you control the people"
Welsh government written statement Para 12.
The last para says it will not be mandatory. But, no doubt private business's will be asking for proof of vaccination before they deal with you/let you in, maybe even super markets, who knows! This way it throws the responsibility on others rather than the Welsh government who can legitimately claim they did not make it mandatory or use coercion and thus did not breach the 'Nuremburg Code'.
Edited By GONZO on 05/12/2020 22:36:57
|john stones 1 Moderator||05/12/2020 22:39:37|
11962 forum posts
You ducking the question Gonzo ?
Why, who ? to what end ?
Or you sticking with everyone's gullible apart from a select group ?
1412 forum posts
Not at all John but I've got to go to bed NHS removal of services has been not good for me. bye.
This thread is closed.
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