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Flaps and retracts? not a clue, help please.

Spektrum DX6i Transmitter.

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Craig Spence23/09/2009 18:18:03
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Hi all,
 
Im getting really frustrated now. I need someone to explain how to set up Flaps and Retracts properly on my Transmitter (Spektrum DX6i and AR6200 receiver).
 
When I do it on the Simulator I can only get the retracts and the flaps to work together, this works ok but when I apply these surfaces on my Spitfire I would like to work them independantly. ie.. pull the flap switch and the flaps work and pull the gear switch and the retracts work, not pull the gear or mix switch and they both work together.
 
When I try setting the flaps up by themselves the elevator moves with it, is this right?. Also where would you plug your flap servo in the receiver, Aux 1 ?(as Gear is used for retracts).
 
Retracts, do you have to set this up on Mix one or Two and although it sais mix, you can use it for an independant use cant you ie.. just retracts?
Also where would you plug this servo?, in gear?. I would also like the switch to be gear.
 
Would really appreciate some feedback before I fall out with my TX lol!.
 
Cheers all.

Edited By Craig Spence on 23/09/2009 18:19:53

Peewhit24/09/2009 19:56:49
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Hi Craig,
 
Do you have one or two aileron servos?
With just one, things are simple, and with two you have a choice of a y-lead or using the aileron and aux 2 channels needing a programmable mix to link the two.
 
Flaps should work directly off the Aux 1 channel. You do need to go into the flap programme screen where you can set the flap movement and also associated elevator compensation - this could why your elevator is moving with the flaps as the default settings may not be not zero.
 
Retracts should plug into the gear channel and work from the gear switch - once again you will need to set the servo travel in the programme.
 
Hope this helps, and come back if you need to.
Andy Gates24/09/2009 20:11:37
643 forum posts
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Craig
 
It sounds like you have a heap of mixes working on your Tx which you do not need.
 
For simplicty I would do as Peewhit suggests.
 
First off cancel or switch off all mixes.
 
If you have 2 aileron servos, join them together with a Y lead and plug them into your aileron channel
 
Next connect the retract servo to the gear channel.
 
Then connect your flaps to the flap channel. If you have 2 servos for flaps then again you will have to join them with a Y lead, make sure the both work in the same direction - if not use a Y lead with a servo reverse fitted on one leg.
Craig Spence26/09/2009 08:37:59
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Hi Peewhit,
 
Sorry for the late reply, I work on an Oil Rig in the north sea and have been pushed for time.
I will be haveing two aileron servo's and I will be connecting them with a y-lead.
 
Thanks for the feedback with the Flaps its much appreciated and clarifys things a little more, do you need to set your elevator as well when useing flaps?, I think id prefere to use it manually but an explanation to why you would set your elevator with your flaps would be greatly appreciated. 
 
As for Retracts, how would you set the servo travel?, would this be in one of the mix settings?.
 
Thanks for the help, ill apply that info when I fly my new Spitfire in the new year (Christmas present from the wife).
 
Cheers, Craig.
Craig Spence26/09/2009 08:43:58
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615 photos
Hi Peewhit,
 
sorry for the late reply, I work on an oil rig and have been pushed for time.
 
I will be useing two servos for ailerons and a y-lead.
 
Thanks for the feedback with the flaps, do most people have elevator set with thier flaps as i think i would prefer to use it manually and why would you programe elevator into flaps, does it give a slower landing? and which way for your elevator? up or down.
 
The retracts, how would you set the servo travel? would it be in one of the mix channels and how would you mix it? what would be the trim 125 up or 125 down?.
 
Thanks for your help really appreciate it and will apply it to my new spitfire in the new year (christmas present from the wife).
 
Cheers, Craig.
Craig Spence26/09/2009 08:45:26
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1170 forum posts
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Sorry all this computer is playing up saying it has not posted the thread lol!.
Craig Spence26/09/2009 08:48:37
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1170 forum posts
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Hi Andy,
 
once again sorry for the late reply, thanks for the clarification on the mixes.
I will remember that when it comes to setting it up. Do you know the mix I need to use for gear ie.. Switch-Gear/Master -gear/ Slave-gear?
 
Cheers Andy.
 
 
Peewhit27/09/2009 19:19:52
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Hi Craig,
 
When flaps are activated, the nose of the plane is raised and you normally need some associated down elevotor to keep it flying level.
This is why the flap settings screen also has an elevator setting.
The plane set up instructions should tell you how much is needed.
 
Think my christmas pressie from the wife this year will ne one of those 2m rocket slope soaring Typhoon things - can't wait.
Andy Gates28/09/2009 15:01:45
643 forum posts
20 photos
While I kind of agree with Peewit I also disagree.
 
First the reason for adding an elevator mix with flaps.
 
As the flaps both go down they change the camber of the wing, that is the mean line drawn down the chord of the aerofoil between the upper and lower surfaces.
Because the camber has been raised and the trailing edge of the wing lowered, it has a effect of raising the angle of attack of the wing so the plane tries to climb.
This of course is countered by adding down elevator, hence the mix.
 
To start off with I would not add any mixing.
Do plenty of testing "at least 2 mistakes high".
Try a dummy landing at this height.
Slow your plane down as usual and then add a little flap and see how the plane responds. Add a bit more if you are happy and notice the change. This is how the plane will react lower down on your approach.
 
If the response to flaps is gentle and manageable then mixing may be unnecessary.
If you feel the response is not controllable then add a small amount of mixing and try again until you get the plane flying how you are happy.
This will vary with the pilot, I prefer no mixing on the flaps.
 
The mix you will be looking for is a FLP / ELE mix, the master being the flap and the elevators being the slave.
 
Sorry I do not know your radio so I can't be more explicit.
 
If you are on a rig, then you must have a superb flying platform available (when there is no wind of course) called the Heli deck
 
Good luck and keep us posted.
Peewhit28/09/2009 17:18:06
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So when the flaps go down, the nose goes up.
 
Thought that's what I said.
Andy Gates28/09/2009 17:33:56
643 forum posts
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That was not the part I was disagreeing with.
 
It was more the relying on the instructions to give the correct mix since that is a personal preferance and down to how the plane is flown.
Frank Skilbeck28/09/2009 19:37:16
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Craig if you are using all 6 controls on your Dx6i, i.e. Elevator, Ailerons, Rudder, Throttle, Gear and Flap then you will not need any mixes at all. If you have two aileron servos they will need to be on a Y lead, if it's Flapperons (i.e. Ailerons which can droop as flaps) then you'll need separate servo's and set the Dual Aileron Option (page 45).
 
Gear and flaps are on separate switches, note on the Dx6i the flaps are on a switch so are either retacted or depolyed but nothing in between. In the menu there is elevator compensation for when the flaps are deployed (page 68/69) you have two positions for the flaps normal and land and can set elevator offset for each setting, I'm guessing that if the elevator moves when you actuate the flaps that you've inputted a value in the elevator column. As suggested above either leave this at 0 (i.e. no compensation) until you've tested the flaps at at least 2 mistakes high or make sure it applys a bit of down elevator.  If the instructions give you recommended settings then follow these.
Craig Spence29/09/2009 07:49:26
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Hi all,
 
thanks for the feedback on this its greatly appreciated, I think everyones going the same way with this.
 
Frank, cheers for the clarification, this is what I really wanted, just the switches.
So for the gear (retracts) there is no single option for this on the transmitter only flaps have a single option. So how would I set the servo travel on the gear channel?, would it be in mix 1?, thats what ive been useing on the simulator.
 
I have to say im not too keen on practesing landings two mistakes high lol!, the thought of looseing the plan on the first few flights is daugnting, when ive used the flaps on the sim theve worked fine however the plane has shot up a few times so I totally understand why you would do this and I understand the use of the elevator setting as well now.
 
Thanks for the help, now ive just got to wait impatietly until Christmas before I put them into practise lol!, cheers.
Andy Gates29/09/2009 17:27:30
643 forum posts
20 photos
Craig
 
Retracts should be on a 2 position switch and the servo travel really ought to be set manually by choosing a suitable position for the linkages on the output horn on the servo.
The closer to the centre of the horn the linkage is attached, the smaller the movement. 
Frank Skilbeck29/09/2009 20:27:31
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4735 forum posts
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Craig for the retracts (assuming you are not using a specialist retract servo which are not proportional) you set the travel just like the other servo's, no need for any mix, see page 64/65
Craig Spence30/09/2009 08:31:24
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615 photos
Hi Andy,
 
thanks for the feedback, I think ill just set it manually then.
 
Cheers.
Craig Spence30/09/2009 08:33:06
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1170 forum posts
615 photos
Hi Frank,
 
ill have a look at the manual again, lol.
 
Much appreciated.
Flanker .30/09/2009 08:56:47
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Hi All . Careful with the flap elevator mix. It varies from plane to plane, some pitch up when flaps are lowered, but most will pitch DOWN requiring UP elevator compensation.(ALL mine do)  Leave your ele comp mix at neutral until you have tried the flaps at height, and  with the model at around half throttle ie flying slowly (ish) Once you know how you plane responds to flap  you will be able to set up a mix to compensate safely.
 
Good luck and you have flown a low winger before haven't you ? 
 
lol  F
Tim Mackey30/09/2009 10:02:06
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Well you seem to have received plenty of response on this matter Craig, so where does that leave you as far as now being set up correctly?
 
As stated, on the DX6i flaps are non proportional ( unless you have a spare propo channnel such as on a glider where we use throttle for flaps sometimes ).
I think if you are still struggling, then it may be best to break down the two issues  separately.
1) Retracts - fairly straightforward really.......
2) Flaps...or flapperons depending on your set up.
 
Let us know where you are at and lets see if we cant crack it once and for all
PS..you mention in the OP about simulator - are you asking for setup info on the SIM or for real - 'cos on a SIM many ancillary controls dont work as expected. If its for real, then I can hopefully help, but SIMS are not my thing TBH

Edited By Timbo - Moderator on 30/09/2009 10:04:34

Craig Spence30/09/2009 17:30:23
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Hi Timbo,
 
thanks for getting back to me so quickly, I think ive sussed it now. Its for a new plane I will be getting for Christmas but I have been practising the flaps and retracts on the simulator.
 
Flaps is preety straight forward now and ive put retracts on mix 1 this may differ on the real thing but the principle remains the same, i think lol!.
 
Cheers Timbo.

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