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HELP wich way doI go?

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Reg 101/12/2009 23:09:31
22 forum posts
HI GUYS
Just joined this forum , having just come back to model flying after a long lay off (20+ years) . I want to build a simi scale SE5a (DB scout ) for my 2nd model.
I am unsurewhich way to go , IC or Electric . I  know a bit about IC but nothing about electric.
1/ What I would like to know  is witch electric motor / battery ( what sort of battery )  combo is compararable to a OS 40 / 46 IC.
2/ I know  this question is a bit like how long is a bit of string, but how much flight time am I going to get out of a 1/2 gallon of fuil ? How long is abattery going to last before Ineed to buy anew one?
                                 CHEERS   REG
Tim Mackey02/12/2009 07:58:50
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Hello and welcome Reg  - take a look HERE and see if it helps, as your question is rather over simplified to give an easy answer.
Take a peek at the forum useage guidelines too please, theres useful tips in there.
Reg 102/12/2009 08:57:34
22 forum posts
HI TIMBO
 Sorry about the crossposting I dont know how I did that . Iknow even less about computers than I do about electric motors !
  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
                                                    CHEERS REG
Tim Mackey02/12/2009 09:02:15
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Thats OK Reg, its not a hanging offence in our forum
When you have had a look at the link I suggested, and hopefully learned a little, feel free to post again with your specific questions, and I am sure we will be able to advise better
Erfolg02/12/2009 09:25:32
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Reg
 
Rather than just considering the technical aspects,
 
 I personally considered the opportunities and restrictions of either option. For me it was a question of noise and the restrictions that, that can bring.
 
I was initially put of by the cost and poor performance of electric systems. That was possibly 2-3 years back. Now he situation is that it is possible to achieve broadly equivalent performance from either system at comparable cost. Although the smaller (broadly speaking) the model the cheaper is the  equipment for electric models.
 
A big plus for electrics, is the lack of gunge on the model after flying, no more disdainful "what is that awful smell, like rancid cooking oil" questions from my wife.
 
With respect to time, I become bored generally before the battery is exhausted, but most of my models are either gliders or lighter than the equivalent IC model. So after 20 minutes I will come down, in the case of sport  models 10 minutes.
 
Yet ic has many attractions to.
 
Erfolg 
Ultymate02/12/2009 09:43:24
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It must be my age, and I apologise if I'm going slightly off topic, but I adore the smells of IC modelling be it petrol glow or the creme de la creme diesel. With electric it's either no smell at all or the acrid smell of burning electics as you've let out the magic smoke. We now have electric models with onboard sound systems, how long before we have onboard smells? I don't very often fly diesel apart from the occasional foray into C/L now but keep a tin of model technics finest D2000 in the eves next to our bedroom and every now and again splash a spot or two on the loft floor just to get a fix ,far better than anything Christian Dior or Hugo Boss have come up with.

Edited By Ultymate on 02/12/2009 09:46:02

Myron Beaumont02/12/2009 10:08:31
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Isn't the choice a bit like that of a "proper" vintage car with individuality or a "blob" powered by electricity? I too lov e the smells to do with models and cars & your model need not be covered in exhaust effluent if you fit a length of tubing to the muffler & direct it away from the model (just like a car)
& by the way Timbo ,I see you have proper cars in your itinerary! Bet you don't want an electric "blob" with a low (so-called) drag factor when the max speed you are allowed is 70 mph
Get a nice well established piece of engineering up front (4 st) and enjoy it just like you would the sound of a Merlin
What makes you think I'm biased-I have both
Tim Mackey02/12/2009 10:29:11
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20920 forum posts
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Blimey, we better make a section just for the old timers eh...and I dont mean the models
Myron Beaumont02/12/2009 12:35:31
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Timbo
What a good idea!  Would it include your good self ?
Stephen Grigg02/12/2009 13:16:28
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I started Electric and a year ago was coaxed into the world of I/C.I /C has atmosphere.A vintage model with a small 4 stroke puffing a bit of blue smoke out is a wonderful sight and sound.There is a sense of achievement when youve picked up an old clunker of an i/c engine cleaned it and  freed it off at getting to the field and firung it  up and taking off with it.Take yaesterday.I took a Super Scorpion to the field .Bought it off E Bay and Id fitted an ols Saito 40 off Ebay as well.I spent all day with variuos members of the club assisting trying  to get it to start,and failed.The day was saved by a Mamselle also off E bay fitted with a .15 thunder Tiger.Started easily and 3 good flights.Quite as tou like and a joy .I will not contact the seller of the Saito,Ill find out whats wrong fix it and when it does start and power a model again Ill have won.In the meantime the Super Scorpion is noe wearing a new looking OS 40 Surpasse 4 stroke also off E bay.Lets hope Im more successful.
Stephen Grigg02/12/2009 13:21:17
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And another thing Reg,if you turn up with electric and it has a problem youll know more than the others,so if it doesnt go youll be on your own
Erfolg02/12/2009 15:53:19
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11827 forum posts
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I do agree many of us like the small of ether, these days that is a definite, no, no. To the extent that the attempted purchase of diesel fuel ingredients is very likely will have you closely questioned. Any Suggestions that you like the smell will almost certainly lead to a refusal. The cost of a pre-madediesel fuel can, is also eye wateringly expensive. Not withstanding the relative frugality of the diesel engine.
 
I have noticed that there is little defence of the noise made by running  IC motors, as even the 4 strokes are noisy compared to the electric motor. This can matter, as even the quietest IC engines sends some citizens into a frenzy, which few councils will ignore. For me this is an irony, as my property backs onto a park/9 hole golf course, the lawnmowers drive me mad first thing in the morning. Sunday is the only relieve. Then there is the leaf blowers......
 
A major advantage of electric is that it is quite possible, to go to any flying field with just model and transmitter, none of the paraphernalia that ic models need. No fuel bottle, pumps, glow leads, Pb battery, or Nicad for starter................
 
If I lived in the Highlands of Scotland IC would be fine, in my neck of the woods (that is politically correct, I hope), it can easily lead to verbal or even physical abuse of the modeller.
 
Another thought, move to Llandudno, no prime mover required at all!
Stephen Grigg02/12/2009 17:06:28
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We fly in a field in the middle of a farm and havent had a complaint in over 20 years,here,s hoping it continues
kc02/12/2009 17:28:30
6724 forum posts
174 photos
All these replies and nobody has answered Reg's question!  What electric motor / battery will work well in a DB Scout?    ( The DB Sport and Scale site says its for a 40 to 60 twostroke or 60 to 80 four stroke. )
 
Obviously there could be many different possiblities but give us some answer. 
 
 

Edited By kc on 02/12/2009 17:31:36

Erfolg02/12/2009 17:48:12
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Reg
 
If you live on a farm and preffer IC, go that way.
Tim Mackey02/12/2009 17:50:18
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I have responded correctly to reg's OP - and await his reply.
You want people to give a "one size fits all"  answer to multiple questions and as you rightly surmise, there are several answers. Heres but one .....
An 800 watt low Kv outrunner and a 4s large capacity lipo
Erfolg03/12/2009 10:31:58
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11827 forum posts
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I have a slightly different take on sizing the motor.
 
In the case of a First World War airplane, it would not fly very fast at all (the full size one).
 
My second thought is, it is a very blunt nosed aircraft. A scale propeller would be of a large diameter. Also large dia propellers are very much more efficient than small diameter props. This points me to a large diameter, with due consideration to taking of, with a fine pitch, as speed is not the name of the game.
 
The reason for considering the propeller so much is that sizing the propeller has a major impact on the current drawn. This is not so with IC which tend to be very narrow on the size of say a 0.4ci ic engine.
 
To swing the big propeller I would automatically look for an inrunner, particularly with the blunt nose.
 
How many watts would I look for, probably less than Timbo, possibly less than 600w, but that is on the assumption that the model is not so heavy, that it has to fly fast. This tends to be a significant difference with electrics, they do not need the mass damping in the airframe to keep it together. I think that is why ARTFs fly so well.
 
With large propellers come gyroscopic effects, but I am not sure at all in this case. You do see some 3ds making use of this.
 
Broadly the same as Timbo, but perhaps with a slightly differing thought process.
 
Erfolg
Tim Mackey03/12/2009 11:08:34
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Erfolg....your staement about looking for an inrunner to swing a large propellor is misleading....OUTRUNNERS are far better suited to swinging large diameter props.
Erfolg03/12/2009 11:58:25
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11827 forum posts
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Timbo
 
You are absolutely correct. Somehow they became transposed in my mind.
 
Another very senior moment
 
Erfolg
Reg 110/12/2009 21:07:54
22 forum posts
HI GUYS
  Thanks for all your help & input.My main concern with IC is the smell & gunge  in the house & car ,this could be life threteing , but I do like the ritual of starting & running IC,
 Electric seems soleless. 
  As Ive been a very good boy this year Farther Christmass, is bringing me a Flair Puppeteer kit for Christmass ( Yeeepeeeee !)  So what 4 stroke would you recommend
                                                                                                                                    REG

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