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Hangar 9 Camel

Possible Winter project.

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Pilot Notes

Pilot Notes

Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel

Wingman21/06/2010 20:55:25
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Well that's the longest day over  so I thought I'd better start planning my winter project. Nothing too serious as I'm strictly an ARTFer. I quite fancy a Hangar 9 Soppy Camel but it would have to be petrol. Does anybody know what is the longest length of engine that would fit inside the cowl without modification? The Saito FG-14 runs to about 140mm to the prop boss.
Chris Card23/06/2010 19:50:03
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No idea about your question I'm afraid but it prompted me to look up the camel.  Lovely looking model and likely to be that bit different from the run of the mill.  I hope your crosswind landing skills are up to scratch though 
Wingman23/06/2010 20:52:59
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Yeah Chris it's certainly a 'looker' and it would sound 'the business' with a petrol 4 stroker in it I think. Had no joy from another forum either so I emailed Hangar 9 with the question and still waiting for a reply.
Crosswind? Nah Nah - only headwind landings on our patch

Edited By Wingman on 23/06/2010 20:53:37

ken anderson.24/06/2010 09:10:49
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hello wingman--have a word with timbo-for he has experience of the camel you are taking a fancy to......he also did a write up for the mag......
 
 ken anderson....ne...1
Wingman24/06/2010 09:20:19
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Thanx Ken.
 
OY TIMBO!!
David Turner 524/06/2010 09:30:20
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I built one of these for a pal.
 
It flew well and was fairly easy to assemble.
 
However, I had to return the wing panels owing to a serious defect. There are hardpoints in the wings. These hardpoints have blind nuts into which various structural fittings are screwed. On my model, the hard-points had been rendered DUST by the action of insects. If I can work out how, I'll post an image.
 
Hangar 9's UK bod claimed that this was hitherto unheard of ... but the retailer told my pal that there had been other instances.
 
That problem set me back several weeks.
 
However, the model was easy to fly, though it suffered a little directional instability at low speeds. I'm surmising that the small fin was being "blanked" at high angles of attack.
 
 
Wingman24/06/2010 10:05:22
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Thanx David - yeah you can actually see the directional instability in the Hangar 9 promo video but I think we'll call that a "scale trait" - it is a fighter after all. I am more interested in the space under the cowl as I can't stand yucky glow fuel so it would need to be petrol.
Info here on posting - Picture posting
David Turner 524/06/2010 10:28:58
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The wing' covering is peeled back to reveal the hardpoint. You can see that the hardwood has been devastated by insect' action. All that remains are a few stringy bits and a small pile of floury dust.
 

 
 

The blind nut with a few bits of hardwood still attached (probably saving those bits for his lunch).  The little blighter could be roaming my workshop as we speak ... chomping through various tasty bits of  model aeroplane.
 
[actually, he's more likely to be in my wallet]
 
 

Edited By David Turner 5 on 24/06/2010 10:32:43

David Turner 524/06/2010 10:37:51
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http://www.modelflying.co.uk/albums/member_photo.asp?a=11641&p=194850
Tim Mackey24/06/2010 12:23:09
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I suffered similar problems to David, as well as a few others TBH and spent a lot of time trying to sort out incorrect wing jigging, blind nuts which were clogged with glue, brittle and weak cabane struts and so on....NOT the best hangar 9 model IMO.
However, perseverence and work saw a nice model emerge, which flew fine, until an unexplained problem totalled it on its maiden landing appproach
What exactly do you want to know WM ?
 
ken anderson.24/06/2010 12:24:08
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david--that look's like a serious flaw in the model-goodness only know's how many have gone the journey through it....a lot of these models must be flying with large powerfull motor's in them....i would think that grounding them all would be the thing to do...... if your's is anything to go by.....
 
  ken anderson....ne...1
 
 
Tim Mackey24/06/2010 12:26:57
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Is this old thread any good WM
Wingman24/06/2010 13:32:19
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David thanx - scary stuff - it will need extra careful inspection if I get one I can see.
 
Timbo the one thing I really want to know is will a Saito FG-14B petrol 4 stroke fit inside the cowl without having to chop bits out of it (the cowl I mean!). It measures 140mm from the rear of the engine mount to the prop boss and 90mm from the side mounting lugs to the cylinder head - if it won't fit that'll be an end to this plan. Thanx for the thread link I'll have a peruse when I get a mo.  
Tim Mackey24/06/2010 14:00:43
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Cant say for sure WM - as mine is no more so cant do measurements etc.
 

  However,  do know some of the USA guys have fitted large petrol engines in theirs - quite a few threads on RC groups etc - might be useful, so I reckon the saito would probably fit.
Wingman24/06/2010 14:25:09
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Great stuff Timbo - Thanx. Beats me why I couldn't find those threads. If those guys can plop a zenoah 20 into it the FG14 should be no problem - I could go zenoah but I really do fancy the 4 stroke putterer for this one. Anyway lots of reading there to while away my time. Pity about your leccy version - all that modding for no enjoyment
David Turner 524/06/2010 18:58:05
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Serious inspection IS warranted, but you'd be unlikely to spot the internal damage that these critters do.
 
Imagine if  the little guy could have been just starting his meal when I assembled the aeroplane... only to keep chomping away for weeks and months; undermining the structure.
 
 
WRT ballast. As I recall, I needed to fit 900-odd grams of lead within the cowl. That broke my heart.
 
 
 
Below are some notes which I wrote after flying the Camel.
 

"First flights were from grass, the Camel’s natural element.  I must confess that I expected the Saito .80 to provide only marginal power for an aeroplane which weighs nearly 10lb, dry. But, I was wrong.

Power was ample for scale flying, providing a reasonable margin for "period" aerobatics.

Ground handling was surprisingly good, at least on grass. I’d expect that the fixed skid would prove to be a liability on tarmac...not a criticism, merely a trait of this aircraft’ type.
 

The first flight inspired confidence and, immediately after take-off, I was "hands off", allowing the Camel to climb, unguided. Take-off and climb required the use of considerably less than full power.

The stall was very gentle; recovery instantaneous; typical, lightly-loaded biplane’ behaviour.

Mild aerobatics were uneventful. Good aerobatics, though, required considerable piloting ability; again, this is typical of the type.

On approach,with low power and as the speed decayed, the Camel showed some tendency to directional instability...a little tenderness in yaw. The aircraft’s vertical surfaces are quite small and short-coupled, so this wasn’t surprising.

I found that it was best to wheel the Camel onto the runway, maintaining a slightly higher approach speed than you would use for a 3-pointer.

The main undercarriage is perfectly positioned and, being sprung, facilitates wheeler landings. They were easy to achieve.

All in all, a pleasant and agile flying machine. Not a novice’s aeroplane, but could be a head-turner in the hands of a competent pilot."

Edited By David Turner 5 on 24/06/2010 19:16:51

Wingman24/06/2010 21:08:28
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Well from what I've read and seen - even Timbos tribulations - offset by DT5s bits - I reckon I will be going for this one. I will start the preliminary priming of
 'The Great One'  for a Christmas purchase. Oh and I'd better arrange for Rentokill to inspect it before I start

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