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Phil May27/06/2010 17:35:20
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1520 forum posts
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I had a bad day today, look what I did to my PC 9  
  

Engine went dead stick at plenty of height , I took it down and around to land on the strip, BUT, I went out much to far before I turned, nearly completed the turn, and  it looks like I lost to much air speed , wing dropped and that started the spiral of death. No excuses, total pilot error. 
What makes it so bad is this model has only had a dozen or so flights. 
 This is my first low winger and it caught me out with the wing dropping so quick, I have had similar incidents in the past with my Stik  but never dropped the wing. A lesson to be learnt.   I do believe this was caught on cam-corder so we may soon see it.
        A sad B.P   
BB27/06/2010 17:39:22
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Ouch Phil.  I've an Exclaim in the repair shop awaiting attention.  It / I made the same mistake.  Too slow on the final turn.
 
BB
Stephen Grigg27/06/2010 18:10:05
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8691 forum posts
1128 photos
Sorry to see what happened Phil,even you film stars can get it wrong,never mind the royalties should helpI suffer from bad knees but if I have a deadstick and dont feel confident I keep in a straight line,long  walk but model in one piece
Peter Miller27/06/2010 18:25:56
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The old, old adage.
 
It is better to walk three hundred yards to pick up the model, rather than thirty yards to pick up the wreckage.
Gemma Jane27/06/2010 18:28:36
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It'll always be the final turn that bites, a few clicks of down trim can help keep the airspeed up whilst concentrating during a dead stick, when I practice them I find it makes all the difference.
 
Hope she's up and running again soon Phil, been watching your posts on this model for a while as it is at the top of my wish list. 
Phil May27/06/2010 19:00:17
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1520 forum posts
154 photos
Just watched the video and something happened I do not understand. As I banked to the left, I think there is sufficient speed, the model suddenly banked right ( with-out input off me ) and spiralled down .
 If it was to drop a wing due to lack of air speed, surely  it would carry on to the left and not change direction as in this case.
  It is on you tube but do not know how to get the link 
  
 
Paddy Fidling27/06/2010 19:09:05
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Ouch! Gutted for you Phil,
 
Lets us know the title of the clip and we'll take a look or maybe someone will put it on here for you
 
(100th Post for me!))
 
Paddy
kc27/06/2010 19:18:11
6079 forum posts
169 photos
If the wing spars are not fractured it looks repairable.  ( I seem to remember an article by Peter Miller recently which dealt with this )
 
Always best to go straight home and at least start the repair, otherwise if put away damaged it will never get repaired ( there must be a name for this law! )  
 
If you are not going to repair it give it to me!   ( I always say this to my clubmates and they have always repaired the model rather than let me have it.  Funny that, but this challenge always works........so far. )

Edited By kc on 27/06/2010 19:22:35

Phil May27/06/2010 20:13:57
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luckily no damage to the wing at all. I have just had a good look at it and I think it is repairable. I collected all the pieces and slotted  them back together like a jigsaw  and it does not look to bad. damage is from wing dowel mount holes  forward, no sign of damage rear of that.  I will take photos of damage to post  and ask for some opinions  on it .
  The you tube video is called -  Flying Sunday 27th June 2010.wmv
                     The crash is at the end section, Steve who filmed it was on fullish  zoom so a bit jumpy. 
      Have a look and please give a bit of feed back. I hope it was just because of air speed, at least I know it was my fault. 
Paddy Fidling27/06/2010 20:44:32
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122 forum posts
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 Here you go Phil,
 
Given that the only major damage is to the front cowl, she looks like she should be pretty repairable. Can you get replacements/spare for a reasonable price?
 
As for the crash it does seem odd how it flicks to the right, but i'm only a begginer myself, so im sure some experets will come to your aid soon
 
Best of Luck
 
Paddy
ken anderson.27/06/2010 20:51:45
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8481 forum posts
773 photos
hello big phil-i have just watched and would say that the wind took over for you--it was a combination of dead stick/stall/downwind...............i think i'm right in saying it was down wind as well....
 
 no expert...ken anderson.....ne...1
Phil May27/06/2010 21:04:13
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1520 forum posts
154 photos
Thanks for that  Paddy, it was down wind Ken and I hope what you say is correct, but I find it so strange how it flicked right.
 Cowl is ok , canopy is in two but I was originally   going to bin her, but I will get photos up loaded an d seek advice
      B.P 
Gemma Jane27/06/2010 22:18:47
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1349 forum posts
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Phil, just watched the video, I don't think the model stalled at all. It 'looks' nose down when it went of  control a pretty unlikely attitude for a stall and that is no spin on the way towards the ground, the model accelerated all the way..
 
What it looks like is a spiral dive. Strange as they usually result from duff control inputs or loss of concentration.
 
I'm wondering if you had a radio failure?
 
It's just a gut feeling to me, it is just a video and if from the ground you thought you had slowed the model and it stalled than fair enough, but from the references on the video it really look like it was nose down and doing fine before entering the spiral dive. 
Phil May27/06/2010 23:06:34
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1520 forum posts
154 photos
I thought it was carrying enough speed to complete the turn ok, it was nose down, no up elevator, I still had the left turn on as it changed course and banked and dropped to the right. As it spiralled I had total loss of control as you could hear me say. After the crash I checked all control functions  and all ok?
If I had completed the turn I would of been straight into wind ( which I would of thought approx 10  mph.)
as you see there is a culvert and a few trees in the area of the crash, people have commented in the past of turbulence in this area?? 
 I wish I could say that I had no dought in my mind I was to blame, but something is bothering me,  I am big enough to hold my hand up to pilot error.

Edited By Big Phil on 27/06/2010 23:08:56

Gemma Jane27/06/2010 23:34:45
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Yep understood Phil it's not like I haven't done the same thing more than once, I bet we all have, it happens so quick with models, but usually when I stall a model at a vital moment I kind of sense it, I know the attitude is a little nose high and I sense the the model has slowed too much. Not that I can do much about it mind you other than picking up the bits.

 
Wish I could be clear cut about it but it seems your memory of the event goes along with my thoughts of watching the video. The main thing is to rule out any potential causes and be confident when getting back on the horse as they say. In a way I find it easier when I know it was just me that goofed it up!
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator28/06/2010 00:04:18
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Bad luck Phil.
 
Very difficult call this one. The downwind element is a bit of an unknown - remember your ground speed can look pretty fast downwind but in reality you can be frighteningly near the stall. But even having said that I tend to agree with Gemma Jane. I had expected to see you clinging on to height and slightly too nose high (all the classic errors!) but you're not. The airspeed "looks" good, the nose "looks" down - you seem to have the situation under control.
 
As Gemma Jane says in a funny way it doesn't look like a stall - I know that's vague but what I mean is when the plane stalls one wing then it tends to be sudden and horrible - the impression is that the model "flicks" onto its back or into a spin. This doesn't do that - it just sort of rolls the wrong way! Then it stalls - but that's after its all ready out of your control.
 
Radio failure of some sort is a possibility - but it could be the wind. As you start the left turn are you cross wind? Presumably so. Maybe the wind flips one wing up - and that creates the stall, because you be all "crossed over" then - heading (yawed) left and banked right which would tend to stall the right wing. But its really hard to say anything really definate based on the vid.
 
Anyway - what ever the cause once it was earthward bound there wasn't much anyone could have done - get it fixed up and airborne again. Once you take a long look at the damage in the cool light of day you'll probably find its repairable. Hope so!
 
BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother on 28/06/2010 00:06:18

Steve Houghton 128/06/2010 00:44:15
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1895 forum posts
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And I am the poor chap who took the video and watched as that plane spiraled out of the sky! I was doubtful at the time when the comment was made about a lack of airspeed and the plane stalling but I wanted to wait untll I played the video back. I must confess that the thought of radio failure came to mind but I haven't been at this hobby long enough to know really.
 
I am gutted for you Phil. Thanks for helping me get my PC9 in the air, hopefully you can repair yours and we can get some formation flying done

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 28/06/2010 05:59:41

Peter 'Ivanna Crashalot' Savage28/06/2010 01:05:33
1557 forum posts
58 photos
Ah :s Looked worse than it actually was though, always a good thing!
 
Is that the one with retracts?  
Phil May28/06/2010 08:25:01
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1520 forum posts
154 photos
It is a strange one, I use Futaba 2.4 on all my models and never had any problems.
I am going to rebuild it using the salvaged parts as templates. Only part that looks like an issue is the damaged canopy .
 Thanks for taking the video Steve it has been a good help. 
 If it had not gone dead stick this would not of happened, why did it go dead stick - ran out of fuel!!! Another goof on my behalf. Lesson learnt on that one I think to use my timer.
 Peter, this model is 40  size so no retracts.
  A couple of photos
 
 
 
 


 

Edited By Big Phil on 28/06/2010 08:25:51

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator28/06/2010 09:43:40
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Personally Phil I'd be very hesitant to call "radio failure" - although many folks point the finger at the radios whenever something happens they don't understand I think that actual radio failure these days is very very rare.
 
As I say its hard to tell from the video - but its much more likely to be a wind/windshear problem or possibly a mechanical problem in the model than radio failure.
 
BEB

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