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soldering stuff together...

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r6dan22/11/2010 10:18:29
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If I were to make a wire undercarrage would the wire be soldered together with a standard electronics type iron and normal solder?
Ultymate22/11/2010 10:26:42
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You would usually need a much bigger iron or I would use a flame(torch) I'd bind the joints with a small gauge wire and use plumbers solder and I use Bakers fluid flux.
Bruce Richards22/11/2010 10:27:40
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You can use normal solder but an electronics soldering iron will not be powerful enough. I usually use a gas torch to solder my wire undercarriages and thick plumber solder. You can buy a torch from the local DIY shop for a reasonable price. Try something like this. You can probably find cheaper ones if you try. Don't forget to get some flux I use Laco.

Edited By Bruce Richards - Moderator on 22/11/2010 10:30:15

r6dan22/11/2010 10:32:16
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Ah..I get it, so really it is almost like gas welding but on a much smaller scale I think i will find myself a nice gas tourch ! cheers guys
Bruce Richards22/11/2010 10:39:29
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Well it's not like welding because it is soldering just that the heat is provided by the torch rather than an iron. With welding you melt part of the components to the joined with soldering you don't.
 
You can use an iron for soldering U/C but it would need to be a big powerful iron or even a gas iron. The main trick with torch soldering is not to get it too hot.
 
You can also do silver soldering with a gas torch this is stronger than soft soldering and can be used on components that get hot (exhausts). to do silver soldering you need to get the components red hot.
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/11/2010 10:53:56
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Dan don't forget the binding wire Ulty refers to, very important. I use 5 amp fuse wire. BInd it around the joint - 10+ turns if possible. I'm a fussy devil were soldering is concerned and I wear latex gloves to do the binding so as to avoid getting any grease from my fingers on it. I clean the u/c wire itself with an abrasive before I bind on the wire.
 
Once all that is in place I then I use dilute phosphoric acid as a flux. Heat the whole joint then aim to flood the whole thing - u/c and binding wire - with solder. If everything is right (temperature and cleaniness) you should see the solder "flash" over the whole surface very quickly.
 
You can do this for average size u/c's with a iron provided its at least 75watts and themostatically controlled so you can get it really hot. The u/c wire acts as a very effective heatsink so it can be difficult getting everything hot enough - but with skill and practice it can be done. A torch is easier - but as Bruce says be careful because you don't want to get it too hot - or you might effect the temper of the steel.
 
BEB
Plummet22/11/2010 11:27:06
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Posted by Bruce Richards - Moderator on 22/11/2010 10:27:40:
You can use normal solder but an electronics soldering iron will not be powerful enough. I usually use a gas torch to solder my wire undercarriages and thick plumber solder. You can buy a torch from the local DIY shop for a reasonable price. Try something like this. You can probably find cheaper ones if you try. Don't forget to get some flux I use Laco.

Edited By Bruce Richards - Moderator on 22/11/2010 10:30:15

 I have to add something to this.
 
If you are lucky enough to have one of the professional soldering irons designed for electronics work you are usually OK.  Mine is a 60W temperature controlled iron.  I would always recommend a temperature controlled iron if you can afford it.  A non controlled iron will get too hot, and cool down when you start doing heavy work.  My iron starts at the right temperature, and as soon as it cools the element pours in the heat.  It makes life (well soldering, anyway) a lot easier.
 
Plummet  
Martin Harris22/11/2010 12:46:49
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Posted by Bruce Richards - Moderator on 22/11/2010 10:27:40:
. Don't forget to get some flux I use Laco.

Edited By Bruce Richards - Moderator on 22/11/2010 10:30:15

 I haven't used Laco flux but it's usually very important to clean the flux residue properly otherwise you're likely to suffer from corrosion in the future

Bruce Richards22/11/2010 13:24:54
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What about this for under £7.50?
Steve W-O22/11/2010 13:45:07
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Must admit, I've never had any problem soldering upto 8 swg wire with an ordinary iron.
 
All my irons from smallest to biggest are Antex now, except for one very large one used for soldering 1/2" copper cables.
 
Keep things clean, and use a decent solder (Ersin multicore, as I have plenty).
 
If the solder melts and flows when you put it on the wire on the opposite side to the iron, it's fine.  If you put the solder on the iron and try and apply it like plaster, it isn't working.
 
I use the cores from cat5 cable for binding, or the solid telephone extension cables.
 
The best way is to watch someone who can solder, it is far simpler than any instructions.
Phil Wood.22/11/2010 15:21:06
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Many people make the mistake of not having the parts to be joined hot enough......you can't just drop hot solder onto the joint.
Use YouTube for advice.........here's an example.
Pol.
Steve W-O22/11/2010 16:12:01
2775 forum posts
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Posted by Phil Wood on 22/11/2010 15:21:06:
Many people make the mistake of not having the parts to be joined hot enough......you can't just drop hot solder onto the joint.
Use YouTube for advice.........here's an example.
Pol.
 
 
Yes, I agree this is the biggest problem with people soldering who don't normally solder, hence my comment  "If the solder melts and flows when you put it on the wire on the opposite side to the iron, it's fine.  If you put the solder on the iron and try and apply it like plaster, it isn't working."



It is most important thathe solder can flow in from a point away from the iron, you should not need to move the iron around, it only need to heat up the work.

The only time solder should be applied to the iron is to wet it to carry the heat to the job.
Phil Wood.22/11/2010 16:32:43
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To keep to the original post here, I think Dan wants to know about soldering wire u/c's........The main thing Dan is that you don't just solder the binding wire.
Sandpaper the bits to be joined and get heat into them as quickly as possible.....make sure the solder flows onto the parts you are joining........not just the binding.
The parts you are trying to join must be hot enough to melt solder. 

Pol.
Stephen Grigg22/11/2010 16:51:19
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8691 forum posts
1128 photos
Funny story here,last winter my mate borrowed my Espace to collect a Motor cycle.Theheater was pretty poor,so guess what he bought to keep him warm,One of the blow torches shown here,think Ill nick it for my soldering,it didnt really keep him warm though.
John Privett22/11/2010 20:32:49
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6019 forum posts
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Supplementary question: 
 
Why it that Americans seem not to notice that the third letter in solder is "L"?  Every american video I've seen on youtube about soldering talks about "soddering."   Sounds slightly rude!
Phil Wood.22/11/2010 20:38:00
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3638 forum posts
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Posted by John Privett on 22/11/2010 20:32:49:
Supplementary question: 
 
Why it that Americans seem not to notice that the third letter in solder is "L"?  Every american video I've seen on youtube about soldering talks about "soddering."   Sounds slightly rude!
 
 
 Blow (BEB wuz 'ere! Ooohhh, the power!) me if I know the answer to that one. ...........Doh.....Ok which mod gets here first? 
Ex- Poly

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 23/11/2010 00:25:20

Danny Fenton22/11/2010 20:46:23
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9314 forum posts
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are you going to moderate yourself there Phil?
 
I would just ad that if you are going to solder and are going to buy equipment consider a blowlamp, if only to allow you to do some silver soldering too.
 
Cheers
Danny
Phil Wood.22/11/2010 20:49:46
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3638 forum posts
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Can't moderate myself Danny........That'd spoil the fun......this is BEB's job.
Pol.
Steve W-O23/11/2010 00:15:07
2775 forum posts
310 photos
Posted by John Privett on 22/11/2010 20:32:49:
Supplementary question: 
 
Why it that Americans seem not to notice that the third letter in solder is "L"?  Every american video I've seen on youtube about soldering talks about "soddering."   Sounds slightly rude!

 Because the third letter is "L" in English

Phil Wood.23/11/2010 00:46:59
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3638 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Phil Wood on 22/11/2010 20:38:00:

 
 Blow (BEB wuz 'ere! Ooohhh, the power!) me if I know the answer to that one. ...........Doh.....Ok which mod gets here first? 
Ex- Poly

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 23/11/2010 00:25:20

 
 Just noticed this one Dave..........Cracker....you got me, am I banned yet?
 
Polybarred.

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