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Piper Twin Apache PA23 -150 74"

Probably a very slow thread.........

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Danny Fenton12/12/2010 00:28:40
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Fired up Turbocad and started work on the Apache for twin electric and A123's
 
I have found one rubbish three view so have had to do most of the work from one side view and one nearly head on shot  Even Bobsairdocs had nothing better.
 
Anyway the fuselage shape is getting close, the wing ribs and plan are done but not on the master copy yet.
 
Thought it might be of interest......
 

Don't hold your breath for updates this is a long term project.
 
Cheers
Danny
 
 
 
 
Tim Hooper12/12/2010 15:51:57
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I'll pull up a chair, shall I?
 
How about posting that 3-view, Dan?
 
tim
Danny Fenton12/12/2010 16:40:29
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Will have to be a recliner Tim, might be a long haul and infrequent updates
 
The 3 view  (don't forget this will be distorted until you click on the image)

However I bought a downloadable copy of the Piper Apache Service manual and the three view in that is much better.
 
I was very apprehensive but had to overlay the new three view on my profile, Which I traced from a side view photograph. Imagine my surprise as to how close it was.
 

The Service manual has also given the wing section as USA235-B not a Clark-Y as originally led to believe.
Wing incidence zero, thrust (down) 0.6 degrees, Tailplane +1
 
I plan to do the cadding when I am stuck indoors babysitting my little daughter, and can't get to the bench so might be very intermittant.
 
Cheers
Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 12/12/2010 16:41:17

Stephen Grigg12/12/2010 18:31:35
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Im in the recliner Danny,you are a busy chap arent you busy busy with the Spitfire,models half built now this one,does it get confusing?
Danny Fenton12/12/2010 18:55:51
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Hi Stephen, I really should try and get something finished though............
 
Cheers
Danny
Ton van Munsteren12/12/2010 19:46:00
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Danny,
 
Great choice of airplane and a good size.
Lookig forward to some more progress.
 
Ton

Edited By Ton van Munsteren on 12/12/2010 19:46:56

Stephen Grigg12/12/2010 20:05:32
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Danny Fenton12/12/2010 20:33:33
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sheez you get bored easily........
 
 
 
 
16 ribs to each wing panel, probably overkill?
 
1 - 8 cover the centre section out to the outer edge of the nacelles.
 
That's all for now, the Spitfire is calling......
 
Cheers
Danny
 

Edited By Danny Fenton on 12/12/2010 20:34:14

Edited By Danny Fenton on 12/12/2010 20:47:17

Stephen Grigg12/12/2010 20:37:35
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Now its getting exciting
Wolfie13/12/2010 08:23:26
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Excellent, another GA twin!
 
Have you got an idea of how it will be powered yet and what sort of target spec?
Quite used to slow build threads here, often I only get 5-10 minutes a day of building time and things tend to drag on.....
.... we need a popcorn smiley.
 
Ton van Munsteren17/12/2010 22:29:55
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Danny,
 
Looking forward to the update of this plane.
 
Ton
Danny Fenton17/12/2010 23:12:36
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Hi Stephen, Wolfie and Ton. As I said it may be a little slow I am afraid. Now I am nervous with you guys looking in  yes a popcorn smiley would be good.
 
I have decided on power plant and that will be a pair of Turnigy motors, not sure of the specific ones yet but I am thinking 4250 or 60 but may get away with smaller. It depends how the weight works out. I am a novice at this game so its all a bit hit and miss. But its a nice big wing even at just 74" (Cub Wing) so loads of lift. I would hope I can get it between 10 and 50lbs  Hopefully much closer to the lower figure than the upper
A set of the nice Eflite electric trike retracts would be nice
 
Although I am a devout A123 user and have been for a few years now, I have started to abandon them. The new Lipos are much better than they were and are now at a point where I will consider them again.
 
I have had to redo the wing section as I had some new data that made my first draft wrong, not by much but enough to make the nacelles look wrong so I have redrawn them. The Nacelles are also traced so I can now start looking at how I want to build the model.
 
I quite fancy doing a crutch fueselage divided somewhere around the datum line or perhaps a symetrical split top to bottom, but am still musing over that one. Anybody have any suggestions. Bear in my mind the entire glazed cockpit roof is coming off, for battery access.
 
Anyway sorry its all talk and no action.......
 
Cheers
Danny
Stephen Grigg17/12/2010 23:53:18
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Sorry Danny I know its late but youve lost me,between 10 and 50 lbs how big is this model,and those motors arent going to be big enough.
Danny Fenton18/12/2010 00:14:26
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Sorry Stephen its late for my sense of humour. I hope to get it around the 10lb mark its only 74" but has trike retractable U/C and is a twin so it could put on weight easily if I am not careful   anything up to 15lbs and it would still be fine, but with weight comes higher flying/landing speed. The little bit of designing I have done, I prefer to build to fly not to withstand a crash
 
Cheers
Danny
Tony Smith 718/12/2010 09:39:52
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Over the summer there was on in the hanger at the local field.  
 
Its away now, or I'd have been able to take some pictures for you.   All that's left now are some marks on the hanger floor for the gear (it has to be positioned exactly so that other planes can get in and out around it).  Its a grass strip which can be a bit soft, and will be tight for that size of plane, so a number of the larger machines are moved to Perth or somewhere over winter. 

Edited By Tony Smith 7 on 18/12/2010 09:40:19

Danny Fenton18/12/2010 10:22:52
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Hi Tony, yes some more photos would be good, I haven't found an example in the UK yet. I have the service manual which shows exploded drawings of things like the retracts etc so should have enough information to be going on with. But if anybody knows of a PA23-150 in the UK can you let me know?
 
Saying that I will still be working on this project in the Spring when perhaps it returns Tony?
 
Cheers
Danny
Danny Fenton18/12/2010 20:25:15
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The new 3 views are sufficiently different that i have strated again with the drawings. it would take as long to modify and check what I have than to start again
 
Firstly I import the three views, trace half the 3 views in TurboCad, then mirror them to produce the other side. This stage also highlights slight errors in the three views.
 
 

In this case it is fairly close, but to get it so, has meant I have had to move the so called datum line that was supposed to run down the centre. It clearly didn't. When i mirrored on the datum things were a fair bit out.
 
Once all the lines are traced, they are then rotated and alligned to vertical and horizontal axis
 
Cheers
Danny
Danny Fenton22/12/2010 15:52:59
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I have spent ages getting the three views spot on and they are now pretty good. Everything is alligned and scaled up to 74 inch wingspan.
 
I can now start planning how i am going to build the model.
 
Nicking a method from Brian Taylor i will build each fuselage half flat on the building board, including the sheeting. Lift from the board and fit all the internal parts then join the two halves. I am still in two minds about a hatch covering the entire cockpit section.
 
 

Cheers
Danny

Vecchio Austriaco22/12/2010 16:12:16
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Looks like another build thread which I have to follow! Especially as I never buildt a twin engine plane....
 
Further up in your thread you said that you stop using ABC and change to LiPo - I did it the other way round. There are not only new LiPos on the market - also new LiFes
 
Now you find LiFe in the same shape as LiPos - It may be that the energy - weight ratio is not exactly the same - but for the windy island where I work ( the UK of course) a little bit of extra weight doesn't matter.
 
The following picture is from Italy - but this plane is now in the UK an uses LiFe.
 
The batteries I use are 4cell 3100mAh LiFe from Hacker.

 
 
Danny Fenton22/12/2010 16:29:16
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It will be very interesting to see how they perform against genuine A123 cells. Timbo and others have played with the non A123 LiFe cells and they have not been as good. It will be nice to see how yours hold up under load.
 
I have gone to Lipo because the cells are now so cheap, can be charged at more than 1C and give me the larger capacity my models need  Would prefer to stay A123, this Apache could go either way......
 
Cheers
Danny
 
 

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