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C-17 Crash

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James4027/12/2010 11:04:57
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 This was a practice display flight for the Elmendorf Alaska airshow, as is quite obvious from the video, he gets it very wrong.
 
 
Watching the video, it looks like he's trying to snap roll her with just about full rudder, why you would do that is ????
 Sad lessons to be learned from this accident, one being never ignore the stall warning!
 
 

Edited By James40 on 27/12/2010 11:05:34

Edited By James40 on 27/12/2010 11:07:13

andy harrold27/12/2010 11:23:41
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an uneducated guess.
he didn t try to roll it.
the rudder deflection varies with airspeed. at slow airspeed more being available/ needed. and he was at slow speed having departed tactically.
the display is probably flown with intermitent stick shaker, bank angle in any case.
very sad, I lost friends in a similar crash.
Peter Miller27/12/2010 11:26:57
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Too tight, too slow, too low.
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator27/12/2010 12:11:12
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He actually did it twice! In the first turn he lost an enormous amount of hieght, then he did the same again only more so! Very sad loss of course - but you've got to ask what was he thinking going into that second turn like that?
 
BEB
James4027/12/2010 12:57:44
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Stick shaker was most definately active with the stall prevention system but over ridden by aggressive inputs to the controls.
Climb out to 850ft instead of 1500ft
Slats retracted too early and in a right hand turn with full right rudder and stick pulled back, the stall warning activated but full right rudder was left in which increased the bank angle and he kept pulling on the stick through the stall ! The stall deepened and the aircraft departed controlled flight with a sink rate of 9000ft/min, 184kts and 63.6' angle of bank.
 
The manual says:
1) apply forward stick.
2)apply maximum thrust .
3)Large rudder inputs should be avoided
 
 
Left aileron and rudder were applied 2 seconds before impact but roll rate was minimal due to the stall.
 
A sad loss of 4 lives due to overconfidence and being overaggressive
Stephen Grigg27/12/2010 13:52:49
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but why James,with all the computers and fail safe devices,how can it happen.
Martin Harris27/12/2010 13:59:08
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I think James covered that at the beginning of his latest posting...
 
Stephen Grigg27/12/2010 14:13:47
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Yes I understand Martin,but Im trying to understand how someone can have millions spending on them to become a compatent pilot how circumstances can arise for these suicidal actions to occur,or is it something we will never know or understand!!!
James4027/12/2010 14:45:53
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I think they call it "Human Factors" these days Stephen.
 
Lots of little events all leading to one major event.  I'm sure suicide wasn't the intention here, just a total mishandling of an aircraft and over confidence in ones ability.
 
If you wish to read the full accident report here please do, it's long winded as you'd expect an accident report to be but it covers everything in depth.
Stephen Grigg27/12/2010 14:53:26
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thanks James very sad .
Martin Harris27/12/2010 15:01:12
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Think Douglas Bader - part of the RAF display team so not short of skill and experience but ego overcame education and he pushed himself just a little too far to prove a point...
 
...but, without such people we'd still be debating whether or not to adopt the wheel!
 
Of course, there are those who would still  like us to. 
 
 

Edited By Martin Harris on 27/12/2010 15:02:04

Pete B - Moderator27/12/2010 15:27:17
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As it has been said in the past, there are many old pilots, many bold pilots, but far fewer old, bold pilots..........a tragic waste of life, sadly.
 
Pete
Simon Chaddock29/12/2010 00:13:49
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The incident and circumstances are horribly similar to the B52 crash at Fairchild AFB in 1991. It was well publicised at the time.
Practising for an air show, outside aircraft operating limits, etc.  

Peter Miller29/12/2010 08:26:04
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Or what about Bullock barrel rolling the Invader at Biggin Hill.
Mowerman29/12/2010 10:34:01
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Always sad to see a crash due to the pilot pushing the limits to impress the public.
When they take the rest of the crew out it makes me angry.
James4029/12/2010 11:17:04
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Simon,
I was thinking exactly the same when I first saw the video clip, it's all too familar to the B-52 crash!
I'm not sure if the B-52 was practicing for an airshow, I seem to recall it was the pilots last flight in a B-52 (quite literally) so he did a bit of a showboating display.
 
 

Simon Chaddock29/12/2010 22:25:01
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James
It was indeed a practise for an air display.
The pilot was well known for his aggressive & outside limits flying to such an extent that he had received several verbal warnings and finally his squadron leader had prohibited him from display flying unless he was on board (he was) acting as co pilot " to protect the crew".
One of the 2 other flight crew was Vice Wing Commander Col Wolff for whom this was to be his final military flight.
 
The whole tragic incident and the circumstances surrounding it apparently are used as a flight safety case study in the USAF.
Peter Miller30/12/2010 08:27:23
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In that case I suggest a serious lack of supervisory skills on the part of the squadron leader. The pilot was obviously a menace to everyone and should have been grounded.
 
To allow him to fly a display flight where his grandstanding tendancies  would be given full rein was just asking for trouble.
James4030/12/2010 09:18:40
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I stand corrected Simon, I knew the pilot had a cavalier attitude but quite how you get a B-52 in that situation is beyond me, especially with the safety pilot watching his every move. B-52's aren't known for their aero capability.
Doug Ireland30/12/2010 10:07:22
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My understanding is the B-52 wasn't cleared for turns in excess for Rate Two. Once the pilot had got beyond that there was no way back.

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