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Keil Kraft Super 60

engine size

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SkippyUK05/10/2013 19:18:52
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287 forum posts
23 photos

Nice touch to add name 'Dick Barton' - I hope he sees this as it will certainly make him smile.

Skippy

Edited By SkippyUK on 05/10/2013 19:19:12

Edited By SkippyUK on 05/10/2013 19:19:31

Ben B05/10/2013 20:18:38
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1421 forum posts
4 photos
Really it should be a plain bearing two stroke but in my eyes 4 strokes with their lazy power seem to suit better.
Ian Shaw22/07/2017 09:33:16
13 forum posts

What a fabulous story about a KK Super 60 above.

I am about to become the proud owner of one! I have purchased it from a lovely lady whose husband sadly died a year ago. It has been converted to electric by her late husband I think a few years ago. Here she is, I am relatively new to the hobby and wonder if I can ask some advice please?

Ian Shaw22/07/2017 09:58:13
13 forum posts

Sorry pressed the button too soon! Here are some close ups of the internals:

I have a Spekrum DX6I and a DX9 transmitters so I'm hoping I can figure out how to bind them to this model especially as the Rx is a Spektrum.

Not really sure was this battery is as I thought ost electric models that were 2.4 GHz would be powered by a LiPo battery but this is a NiMH but the voltage is obscured.

Not sure if some servos are missing though as these are obviously rudder and elevators but the first photo shows ailerons on the wings I think.

Any advice regarding LiPos batteries, flying characteristics anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I am currently flying a Hobby Zone Conscendo electric glider that is a beauty to fly and very safe with it's self righting panic button!

Cheers

Ian

Ian McTaggart06/03/2018 20:45:21
17 forum posts

Hi experts; I've just followed the 'Super 60' posts with great interest.

I am a returning aero-modeller, - after nearly 60 years but I suspect / hope I'm probably in quite good company. Anyway you're not interested in that. I'm buying an original KK Super 60 part-built which hopefully will take to the air in the not too distant future. I have always thought is an elegant model but I have been wondering if it might look even nicer with the engine inverted. Has anyone ever done that?

And please excuse my ignorance, if the answer is yes will a four stroke be happy upside down? (They weren't around when I was a lad).

Thanks, Ian.

PatMc07/03/2018 14:23:12
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4326 forum posts
524 photos

Inverted engine installation was always my preference with ic models/

I built my Junior 60 with an inverted 2 stroke. IMO it looked much better with the cylinder hidden than most examples with the pot in full view. Never had any problems operating it over about 20 years regular use including some flying as float plane from a lake.
Also flew my Magnattila with an inverted OS 40 4stroke for several years without any issues.

PS you don't by any chance hail from the Dundee area do you ?

Peter Christy07/03/2018 14:36:09
1728 forum posts

I flew a Flair Attila with an inverted OS20 four-stroke for years. Never had any problems after I lowered the tank to be more in line with the engine.

Just be careful not to over-choke it when starting. Its quite easy to flood an inverted 4-stroke, and the combination of an electric start and a hydraulic lock can be expensive!

--

Pete

Ian McTaggart26/03/2018 23:18:47
17 forum posts

Pat Mc and Peter Christy,

Thank you for responding to my post: and thank you very much for your advice.

I'm going to plan towards a small -ish four stroke. 20 to 35? and I will definitely go for inverted.

David Davis27/03/2018 05:41:03
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3598 forum posts
659 photos

I have an inverted OS 40 in my Baron, a French trainer from the 1970s which is about the same size as a Super 60. It works well despite all of the warnings from the Cassandras in the club.

baron apres premier vol (4).jpg

I think you'll be alright with a 30 fourstroke but with anything smaller, the model might struggle on take-off.

Nigel R27/03/2018 09:16:54
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3518 forum posts
540 photos

"I'm going to plan towards a small -ish four stroke. 20 to 35? and I will definitely go for inverted"

Many moons ago I had a Junior 60 with an HP VT25 four stroke, which had approximately no power whatsoever. It seemed to manage perfectly well.

On that basis, I would have thought an SC30 would be plenty OK.

Fun Flyer27/03/2018 09:56:20
305 forum posts
51 photos

My Super60s have flown quite happily on a 48 FS.

Shaun Walsh13/04/2018 09:14:07
255 forum posts
19 photos

In the mid 1970s someone in my old club (Thurrock Model Flying Club) decided it would be a good idea to put a Fox .60 2 stroke into a Super 60, it went very well until he tried a fast diving low pass at which point the lift generated by the front of the wing exceed the ability of the rubber bands to hold it down. The front of the wing lifted and it did a very tight loop into the ground.

But the prize for exceeding the power requirements of an airframe goes to a friend of mine who put a .60 into a suitably beefed up Kielkraft outlaw with the nicads in the tail to balance it out. It had to be hand launched on half throttle otherwise the motor torque produced violent oscillations in the roll axis.

Ian McTaggart23/04/2018 23:18:36
17 forum posts

Thanks to you all for the advice on inverted and motor sizes for the S60. I've now bought an Enya 35 model 5224, which looks similar to the motor on the 1960's Keil-Kraft plan. And I got an unused Enya 41-4C. As it's not been used do I need to 'run it in'? If so, what is the best way? I'm not completely clueless but I pre-date model four-strokes! Perhaps I'll use the 35 while I'm learning and then switch to the four stroke. The other big gap in my knowledge is covering materials. Back in the day I would have used nylon or silk especially on the wings. I would appreciate wise words on what is considered a strong covering now. If nylon is still available somewhere that might be the way to go, as it would be absolutely contemporary for the model.

David Davis24/04/2018 04:17:26
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3598 forum posts
659 photos

Silk is available from Sussex Model Centre among other suppliers. **LINK**

Nylon is also available but you may have to phone around a bit to find it.Others have used polyester dress lining material.

Over the last twenty or thirty years most of us have gone over to iron-on fabrics like Solartex which is available in a wide range of colours including Vintage Red, Vintage, Blue, Vintage Yellow and Vintage Orange which are semi translucent and supposed to look like silk. Iron-on coverings are popular because there is no smell as associated with dope. However, the company which makes Solartex has recently stopped trading but you can still buy the product while stocks last: **LINK** This is my Super 60 finished in Solartex Vintage Red with Solartex Black and Solartex White trim.

There is a German product called Oratex which is similar to Solartex. I've never used it but it has a good reputation.

super 60 merco 35 up.jpg

Either of your Enyas will power the Super 60 adequately and you won't wear one out!

Can you please remind me Ian whether the Super 60 uses 1/16" or 3/32" wing ribs. I have a special project in mind which will use the Super 60 wing planform!

Edited By David Davis on 24/04/2018 04:22:35

Dave Cunnington24/04/2018 08:27:48
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150 forum posts
40 photos

3/32 wing ribs I believe....however I cannot see anything to confirm that on the plans

DC

David Davis24/04/2018 08:36:06
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3598 forum posts
659 photos
Posted by Dave Cunnington on 24/04/2018 08:27:48:

3/32 wing ribs I believe....however I cannot see anything to confirm that on the plans

DC

Neither can I on my set of plans, that's why I asked! However, 3/32" would make sense on a model of this size and type.

Nigel R24/04/2018 09:15:50
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3518 forum posts
540 photos

The Enya four stroke is a terrible engine, I can take it off your hands if you like.

devil

In case you are missing the instructions, there is a copy here:

http://www.dieselrc.com/download/enya_41-4c.pdf

It is a ringed engine. Yes, it needs to be run in.

I would personally run in slightly rich, alternating between 30 seconds full throttle, 30 seconds fast idle.

As you put more time on the engine, after about a half hour, it'll be ok to finish off the running in process in the plane. Just keep the idle fairly quick for the first hour or so of airtime.

Lovely motors.

 

 

As for covering, I would look at Oratex (now that Solarfilm are defunct) for an iron on.

Edited By Nigel R on 24/04/2018 09:22:39

Mike Etheridge 124/04/2018 09:39:19
1538 forum posts
429 photos

I would agree Oratex is a good covering and is also used on full size planes, gliders I think ?. It is more expensive than Solartex however but I have used it on the refurbishment of my Super 60 and Junior 60.

super 60 28-01-2011 001.jpg

Fun Flyer24/04/2018 10:10:50
305 forum posts
51 photos
Posted by Dave Cunnington on 24/04/2018 08:27:48:

3/32 wing ribs I believe....however I cannot see anything to confirm that on the plans

DC

My original, well used and faded, KeilKraft plan says 3/32" for the ribs except for the centre section ribs which are 1/4"

David Davis24/04/2018 12:28:57
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3598 forum posts
659 photos

Thanks FF.

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