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Paul Marsh29/06/2020 11:40:38
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I bought a Flair Puppateer at a swap meet for £110, with OS 52 FS engine, just needed rx and battery.

Peter Miller29/06/2020 11:49:51
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Ah Well,I am far from an expert on German WW1 colour schemes.

I do know one though. Von Baun's STaffel one Fokker DVII was all yellow witha black chequerboard across the top wing between the crosses.

This was the aircraft that shot my father down!!! He got a close view of that one but didn't get it.

Daithi O Buitigh29/06/2020 12:18:56
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There's an urban myth, Peter, that von R always flew an all-red triplane with the curved Maltese crosses - actually he only flew the all-red one a couple of times and never in combat (presumably he put on a display for visiting VIPs who wanted to see der Rote Jagdflieger in his all-red aircraft). That aircraft ended up in a Berlin museum and was, at a guess, destroyed during the bombing. The one he normally flew was partially red (fuselage forward of the cockpit and upper side of wings - aft of the square with the cross was the streaky Fokker olive green

Robin Colbourne29/06/2020 12:34:38
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Posted by Peter Miller on 29/06/2020 11:49:51:

Ah Well,I am far from an expert on German WW1 colour schemes.

I do know one though. Von Baun's STaffel one Fokker DVII was all yellow witha black chequerboard across the top wing between the crosses.

This was the aircraft that shot my father down!!! He got a close view of that one but didn't get it.

Peter, Was your father William Miller, flying with George Darvill in a DH4? I only ask because I found this:

Reconaissance & Bomber Aces of WW1 - William Miller (Page 37 Left hand side)

Its surprising how effective the two seaters were against the single seaters in the First World War. Presumably why the RAF thought the Defiant was worth getting in WWII.

Peter Miller29/06/2020 12:49:13
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That is him Robin.Officially had 6 kills from the back seatf the DH4. He also won the DFC for a particularly dangerous recconaisance flight.

He was one of the first rear gunners tomount twoLweis guns on the scarf mount.

He was actually going on his pilot training but volunteered for the last raid with his pilot when he was shot down and badly wounded. NEVER VOLUNTEER!!!!

What many people do not realise but the DH4 could climb to 22,000 feet. No oxygen, open cockpit.

Edited By Peter Miller on 29/06/2020 12:49:44

Robin Colbourne29/06/2020 13:55:35
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Peter, Your father was clearly a courageous man. I guess if he had had a gun jam in combat, having two guns must have given him more reassurance, protection and opportunities. From what Wikipedia says, it took considerable strength to move and operate two guns on a Scarff ring, which is why they reverted to a single gun again after the war.

Did your father ever say how he managed to avoid shooting his own aircraft when using a Scarff ring? I can't see any reference to interrupter equipment.

Scarff Ring - Wikipedia

I'll ask on the Facebook group foir First World War Aircraft if anyone can help with a picture of a DVII in the colour scheme you describe. I can't find any reference to a 'Von Baun' Could it have been Konstantin Von Braun's Jagdstaffel 24?

You may be interested in reading about your father's aircraft, A7815 here, in the post by 'Vulcanworks' on 6 June 2008, 03:04 PM . Double Lewis gun on A7815

The colour scheme you describe is similar to that of Gottard Sachsenberg. Wikipedia describes his 'Marine Jagdgruppe Flander' as, '...switched from the Albatros to Fokker D.VIIs in June 1918. They were as colorfully and distinctively marked as Manfred von Richthofen's "Flying Circus" (Jagdgeschwader I), with the basic color scheme being yellow and black, as a yellow and black checkerboard had been Sachsenberg's personal motif, and it was spread to the entire unit, with minor variations marking the different pilots.'

Peter Miller29/06/2020 18:18:23
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In his final battle 9 aircraft had to bomb a bridge. 3 never took off, 3 turned back. The remaining aircraft were told to bomb and then climb for height. My father's pilot did that, The other 2 did not. They never made it back.

In the fight my father actually shot his own rudder control off.

At 22000 feet the German fighters could not reach them but this time they couldn't reach that height.THey finally crashed and,until they saw the solders coming to help them they did not know which side of the lines they were. Luckily it was on our side.

My father had badly shot up lower leg,a bullet through the shoulder and anther through his elbow. He was 13months in hospital. He was called up and served all through WWII

I can only say what he said about the German and probably he never knew exactly which Von Braun it was but he was sure of the colour scheme of the Fokker DVII.

I have found a copy of reconnaissance and bomber aces of WW1 and ordered it. I will now check out those link you have given me.

I did have a letter written by my father describing how he won the DFC. I have given it to 18 Squadron records.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Peter Miller on 29/06/2020 18:22:12

Robin Colbourne29/06/2020 19:16:38
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Peterr that is an incredible story! How anyone managed to cope astounds me. 22000ft on an unsupercharged engine is very good going, it must have been pretty asthmatic by the time it got there. I just checked Wikipedia, and it says they INCREASED the Rolls Royce Eagle compression ratio to 4.9:1 in 1917!

Did your father ever fully recover from his wounds?

By coincidence, 18 Squadron flies Chinook helicopters these days, and is based at RAF Odiham where I was gliding until recently.

I will ask a Facebook group I'm on to see if anyone has more info on the DVIIs of Von Braun's Staffel. There's a chap in Germany who has built several replicas of various WW1 Fokkers, and has done a lot of research on them.

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 29/06/2020 20:16:39

brokenenglish29/06/2020 19:17:45
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572 forum posts
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Wonderful stuff Peter. Thanks a lot!

Gary Clark 129/06/2020 20:18:41
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236 forum posts
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Incredible stories Peter. Aviation has changed a little since your dad was in the flying Corps!

Peter Miller29/06/2020 21:07:43
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11125 forum posts
1309 photos
10 articles
Posted by Robin Colbourne on 29/06/2020 19:16:38:

Peterr that is an incredible story! How anyone managed to cope astounds me. 22000ft on an unsupercharged engine is very good going, it must have been pretty asthmatic by the time it got there. I just checked Wikipedia, and it says they INCREASED the Rolls Royce Eagle compression ratio to 4.9:1 in 1917!

Did your father ever fully recover from his wounds?

By coincidence, 18 Squadron flies Chinook helicopters these days, and is based at RAF Odiham where I was gliding until recently.

I will ask a Facebook group I'm on to see if anyone has more info on the DVIIs of Von Braun's Staffel. There's a chap in Germany who has built several replicas of various WW1 Fokkers, and has done a lot of research on them.

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 29/06/2020 20:16:39

THanks

My father could never fully straighten his right arm which hampered his golf.

I believe that his years first in the trenches from about 1916 on and then the RFC did affect him psychologically which is pretty understandable and I believe pretty normal..

He did talk about his service.He was a maths teacher and the other boys discovered that if they could get him talking you could forget about geometry.

Imust copy the printed version of his description of the mission that won him the DFC. I hope thatI can post it here somehow.

Daithi O Buitigh29/06/2020 23:33:06
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Posted by Kevin Fairgrieve on 28/06/2020 21:16:57:

secret How much!!!!

Flair Puppeter

The builder must have used this glue in assembly+

Gary Clark 130/06/2020 00:09:27
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236 forum posts
131 photos

That would be amazing to read Peter.

Peter Miller30/06/2020 08:10:11
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11125 forum posts
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10 articles
Posted by Gary Clark 1 on 30/06/2020 00:09:27:

That would be amazing to read Peter.

Just got to find it!!

Andy Stephenson30/06/2020 23:37:05
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28 photos
Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 29/06/2020 23:33:06:
Posted by Kevin Fairgrieve on 28/06/2020 21:16:57:

secret How much!!!!

Flair Puppeter

The builder must have used this glue in assembly+

At least the glue comes with free postage!

leccyflyer01/07/2020 07:30:34
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1481 forum posts
324 photos
Posted by Robin Colbourne on 28/06/2020 22:29:37:
Posted by Kevin Fairgrieve on 28/06/2020 21:16:57:

secret How much!!!!

Flair Puppeter

Why oh why does he say it was modelled on an Albatros DIII? THe Albatros has an inline engine with a big spinner, a fairly rounded fuselage and wingtips swept the other way.
Oh, hang on, the Albatros had black crosses too, that must be it!

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 28/06/2020 22:31:12

Indeed - it couldn't be further from an Albatross DIII unless it was a Flair Magnatilla or Triplane.. As mentioned, it's being sold by an antique shop and they do have some funny ideas about the value of models sold as ornaments.

Peter Miller01/07/2020 07:35:59
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11125 forum posts
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10 articles

If you watch Salvage Hunters or Antiques Road Trip it is suprising the number of tatty looking models hanging up in antique shops.

I once looked at Drew Pritchard's website and saw a couple there at ridiculous prices.

Some times I Iook at my semi retired stable and wonder A) how much they would give me for them and B) how much they would the charge for the same rather tatty item

J D 801/07/2020 09:41:43
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1497 forum posts
84 photos

Seen a some on Bargain Hunt as well.

Robin Colbourne01/07/2020 17:52:27
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596 forum posts
17 photos

I hope whoever buys this realises just how little of a Precedent Flyboy they will be getting... I seem to remember copious sheets of liteply; which are notable by their absence in the only picture out of four that actually shows the box contents!

Also if you look at the bids so far, this is a classic case of 'Shill Bidding'.

Precedent Flyboy

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 01/07/2020 17:54:53

Peter Miller01/07/2020 18:16:48
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11125 forum posts
1309 photos
10 articles

It would seem that most of the ribs aremissing although I do see the odd one under the rubbish

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