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Flair EE, will it fly i.c.?

flair english electric lightning

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jerm09/03/2012 09:41:56
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i have been working on converting a flair english eletric lightning power soarer to a ic , i know its totally unconventinal and maybe even a waist of time. but i like a challenge,i have installed fire wall and engine,under carrage, servos, radio, reinforced structure , its all gone together nicely and looking good, well it is a bit ugly but nether mind. my biggest problem is c of g i have done some research but can't quiet nail it. am i waisting my time or will this bird fly?

ken anderson.09/03/2012 09:46:23
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jerm-i dont think you'll have wasted your time-they all fly once.......it'll depend on the AUW and the wing loading etc.......if you've increased the weight it'll need a fair bit of speed to keep itself in the air...the thing to do is either use the glider c of g as a starting point or...download one of the free c of g calculators......good luck-and let us know how you get on....this link is worth a look at...

 

ken anderson ne..1 ... c of g dept/north.

 

Edited By ken anderson. on 09/03/2012 09:48:44

Edited to correct link....

Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 09/03/2012 09:57:55

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator09/03/2012 09:59:46
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Ken please take a look here for the new way of posting links....

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator09/03/2012 10:03:14
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Surely the CoG is listed on the plan for the PSS version......just because it is now IC powered this won't change the CoG....

jerm09/03/2012 11:18:53
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i had gone down the route of using original c of g , i had to put 250g of lead in tail to make it balance out, making auw 3 kg , this is on the limit as far as getting airbourne from our flying strip which is all grass .knowing that i need speed and power i am trying to keep as light as possible. but i think your right the c of g will be simular to glider.

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator09/03/2012 11:25:05
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I think it will give you the best chance Jerm......any pics of the model? I'm a big fan of the Lightning....great looking aeroplane for an engine with wings......

This is my tiny electric one from the RCM&E free plan some years ago.....

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator09/03/2012 12:02:18
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I don't think the question is "will it fly" - give it enough power and a brick will fly! The question is "do you have enough sky and will you be able to keep up with it"!

There are several well known nice stories about the Lightning one being about the Squadron commanding officer who decided that the privalige of rank meant that he should get the first go on the squadrons newly allocated Lightnings. After the flight one of his men asked him "How was it?" To which he replied "It was great. I was right with it, right upto the moment when I released the brakes"!

BEB

Martin Harris - Moderator09/03/2012 12:47:30
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I played with one which had already been converted but not quite completed that I bought at a swapmeet on impulse. I think I put an OS 46 in mine but it might have been an Irvine of the same capacity.  It was a bit on the heavy side but it got airborne after a couple of aborted attempts. It looked truly impressive climbing out and I was feeling very satisfied

...until I trie to turn when all hell broke loose! I suspect it was a Dutch Roll situation but I was so busy trying to restore some sort of controlled flight that the details were a bit hazy. I managed to dump it into the next field relatively tidily without massive damage (wings OK but mid/rear fuselage needs some work) but it's been sitting in my "to do" section (some call it the loft) for 7 or 8 years - perhaps yours will inspire me to dig it out again after researching cures for Dutch Rolling?

I located my battery in one of the tailpipes as I recall, can you substitute your battery for the lead - or is it already there as well?

 

Edited By Martin Harris on 09/03/2012 12:49:51

Martin Harris - Moderator09/03/2012 14:14:29
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Just found this thread on somewhere unmentionable...

Some reflex was going to be my next step...

Edited By Martin Harris on 09/03/2012 14:15:27

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator09/03/2012 15:20:48
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Martin,

the classical cure for Dutch Roll is anhedral - its usually caused by a roll/yaw interaction between the fin and the wings. The cure is usually to weaken the wing's tendancy to induce corrective yaw/roll.

BEB

Martin Harris - Moderator10/03/2012 09:39:11
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...but not an easy thing to adjust! (in most cases)

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator10/03/2012 10:22:55
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Ah how true!

BEB

Former Member10/03/2012 15:19:46
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[This posting has been removed]

jerm10/03/2012 17:10:14
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it sounds to me that getting my model airbourne is going to be the first of many challenges,

jerm07/04/2012 20:06:23
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took the model down to strip today. had a couple of trial runs to test steering on grass, it was a bit bumpy.we recently rolled strip but loads of worm cast have appeared and gone hard due to the hot weather. thought i would give it a go anyway ,all was going well till i hit bit bump and veered off into long grass ripping off under carrage . easy fix but worried this model wont rotate off of grass.

Martin Harris - Moderator07/04/2012 20:24:29
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What are you powering it with? I can't remember the exact details but I've got a feeling that I put a more powerful engine (46 ball raced) in mine after initial problems getting it airborne with a smaller one. The 46 powered it very well off a slightly uphill grass runway.

Edited By Martin Harris on 07/04/2012 20:26:31

Chris Channon10/04/2012 17:53:03
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Hi Jerm, mine flew with a .40 Irvine, brilliant.

The model was designed for either PSS or IC power, they are brilliant, fly really well i wonder if PB models will bring the EE Lightning out again ?

A lot of people just removed the prop and flew them off the slope in a strong wind, i was never brave enough !!!

Hope this helps a bit

Regards

Chris.

jerm13/04/2012 11:06:57
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i have a irvine 46 installed, seems more than enougth.When testing model in vertical position it seems to pull well. Our club has a10000 rpm limit so engine is throwing a 12/7 prop at 9700 rpm i dont think this should make a difference to rotation, although the models i've seen on you tube seem to be real screamers.

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