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Help with DB S&S Moth e Built up TE please

DB Sport & Scale moth e

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Gary Murphy 130/06/2012 19:21:31
484 forum posts
22 photos

I am a novice builder and really stuck on the TE build at root and tip.No views or pictures are on the plan for me to get a idea of the technique.

It says to add scrap in the areas which i get and i needed to alter the tail of one the last rib at the TE curv area but from there i am stuck.

The main root end problem is that in my case the top TE piece keeps on going straight,does it ned to dip at thet area?

I can not seem to post pictures but they are in the album i created,i think the pictures will make thing more clear than my discription.

If anyone can tell me the technique for each end that would be really cool.

John Tee30/06/2012 21:01:48
903 forum posts
73 photos

Hi Gary. It would help to know what the model is in case anyone else has built it. It looks to me that the trailing edge would finish at the last rib and then the wing tip (I think was marked 27a/b) would glue to the centre line of the end rib from leading edge to trailing edge and then all sanded to shape. It's not clear from the photos but it looks as if you build the two wing panels over the same bit of the plan from the dotted lines which may add to your confusion as too where to line bits up. This also means that the second wing tip is where the first root is on the plan if that makes any sense. As I say a bit more info would help. I'm sure with that someone will be able to help.

John

Edited By John Tee on 30/06/2012 21:04:16

Gary Murphy 101/07/2012 11:21:45
484 forum posts
22 photos

Hi John, The kit is a DB Sport Tiger Moth "e" 48 inch.

It is really hard to explain/discribe the issues i have.If i had a diagramme or illustration i could be my head around it.

The wing is built like you say in 2 halves and over the same plan area.

At both ends.tip and rib the manual says to fill with scrap balsa,which i understand at the flat area of TE but i can not work out how this works at the curve portion at the root end.Can you see the gap between the upper and lower TE strips.it get bigger nearer the tip.I do not know if i am meant to pull the ends togerther or how much i need to sand to shape.

On the plans there is a view of the wing side on and this does show the wing tip area.it shows the wing tip piece,which replicates the curve of the rib,inbeetwen the TE pieces, which looking a the plan i thought gp past the last rib.Again no illustration on the plan to show any shape of finished tip.

This is proberly basic stuff but being new to building this is the first time i have crossed this built technique.The manual and kit is proberly for someone with prior builds.

If the TE was straight across with no curve i would be ok.its the gap between the TE pieces that throw me.

Chris Bott - Moderator01/07/2012 11:29:58
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6844 forum posts
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Gary I don't know the model but a quick call or email to Eddie at DB S&S should get a helpful answer.

He does come on the forum now and again. I'll chenge the title of this thread which might help him spot it.

Max Trent01/07/2012 11:45:12
48 forum posts
1 photos

Gary,You are not alone i had and have the exact same problem! So much so that the build is put to one side.I even built rough copies of the root area so experiment with so the kit would not get spoilt but could still not work it out.The trouble is every picture i see of the kit OR similar model is covered.Can not blame the kit or manual because i suppose its not a build for novice,i got this after several guillows and a basic westwings kit.But as you say there are no views of the area to give any idea of the build method.I also think the TE goes past the last tip rib BUT i see a picture of a Flair kit with the same tip method but that had the TE end at the last rib.If you are like me a picture tells a 1000 words.I am going to follow this with fingers crossed,only by chance i see the title.The fuse is less problematic i built that hoping to sort the wings after but no luck yet.Good luck.

Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale01/07/2012 13:35:16
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94 forum posts
1 photos

Hi Gary,

As Chris says, give us a ring and we will sort it for you (it's our job to help as well as supply). The way you are writing it looks more complicated than explaining on the phone, talk to me and we can get a better picture of what you are trying to describe.

Eddie.

Alan Cantwell01/07/2012 14:20:26
3039 forum posts

eddie, if you press albums, above, the pictures are on there, just been looking at them, for me, it looks like the top part of the built up trailing edge sheet needs cracking at the end rib, and bending down, to taper off at the wing tip,

and best of luck with the sale of the company, if i was 10 years younger, i would be proud to take it on

Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale01/07/2012 19:16:14
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94 forum posts
1 photos

Hello Gary,

Having looked at your photo's (thanks Alan) I can see that you seem to be on the right track, just follow what the instructins advise and, as you obviosly have been doing (using a little common sense) as long as it looks right when it's done, and you feel happy with its profile, carry on and cover it.

The great thing about all of this is that each one of us learns a bit more as we work our way through things. Every day is a school day in my book

Max Trent02/07/2012 09:00:54
48 forum posts
1 photos

Eddie,Sorry to jump in on Gary`s post but i have had that same quandry also.I have got slightly further at the root area by filling with scrap like manual states also i altered the last rib at the TE contact area,shorter and steeper.My scrap piece when shaped filled the area in gary`s photo,waffer thin at rib,thicker at the curve.But i do not see how this is right because the top TE strip carries across higher than "232",corner piece.It does not seem right that the TE gets sanded down?

I have looked high and low for pictures of a wing built this way with no luck.The trouble i have with the "if it looks right method" is that having little if no experience i dont really know right from wrong.

Being my first "proper kit" i will admit to making a couple of mistakes but so far i have managed to correct all of them,but i really can not get the jist of this.

Chris Bott - Moderator02/07/2012 09:28:20
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Hi gents. Just to try to help I'm adding the photo's here. Am I right thinking we have two different ends to do? A wing tip and a wing root?

Is this one end maybe the root end?

And this is the other end, probably the tip?

If that is the case I'd be tempted to do the one end (showing 205 and 232) by pinching the T/E together and then carving a little off part 232 to match the shape.

At the other end that I think is a wingtip, I might cut off the T/E along the line of the rib, glue on 207 down the centre of the rib and maybe add blocks of scrap where the T/E was above amd below, which would be sanded to a nice taper.

Of course I'm making this up just by looking at the photos, not from any knowledge of the model.

Chris Bott - Moderator02/07/2012 09:49:54
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Gary is the extra rib next to 232 supposed to be there? If so then I may have the above wrong.

However if 232 is indeed at the root end, then the wing centre section (fuel tank on the full size) sits next to this and the centre section is narrower than the rest of the wing.

Gary Murphy 102/07/2012 16:48:21
484 forum posts
22 photos

Chris,The rib next to 232 is shown on the plan.It needs to be cut and shaped but i left it well over size untill later.

Max,glad to see its not only me : ) The thing in my case is that there are several things going on at the root end that all combine to confuse me. On the straight TE section fitting the top strip is easy,i chamfer the rear edge and bobs yer uncle BUT at the curve the strips form a large gap so will i need to chamfer or fill with scrap like Max did with no chamfer then sand the "squared" area down.

It is so hard to discribe what needs to be done,i could phone eddy but again its hard to put stuff in words.I have spent hours trying to find images in big blogs etc to see how this kind of wing is built,all with no luck.

Alan Cantwell02/07/2012 16:55:58
3039 forum posts

after another look, i would be gluing the horizontal tip rib to the middle of the vertical end rib, angling down the square spartop and bottom to glue on the horizontal tip rib, cutting off the trailing edge at the last vertical rib, and adding block to the top and bottom of the trailing edge, and sand the block to section, this make sense?

Gary Murphy 103/07/2012 08:58:34
484 forum posts
22 photos

Thanks Alan,The tip section is shown on the plans end on and you are right that the tip is attached to the rib matching the curve and there are wedges to run on from the spars.It is at the TE that i was stuck again.The image on the plan shows the tip sandwiched between the TE strips and it mentions to fill with scrap but the void is so small,not like the root area.I have managed to find a picture of a similar tip and the TE i stopped at the last rib like you mention but the plan shows mine full length.

Hate to admit defeat but i think i will put this to one side until i find pictures ot the root area build technique and shaping,i do not want to have a go regardless and ruin the wing.

Tomas Dunker26/07/2012 16:55:39
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76 forum posts
84 photos

Maybe this can help? See bottom of page...
**LINK**

/ Tomas D.

Tomas Dunker26/07/2012 21:45:55
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76 forum posts
84 photos

Question:
Should the wings dihedral be the same with or without ailerons?

/ Tomas D.

Max Trent27/07/2012 09:07:55
48 forum posts
1 photos

Tomas,Many thanks for the help.I am really glad to see someone with more skill than me is doing a build on the Moth e. I hope you continue to add pictures.I have looked at the curved area which i am stuck on and see you have added some packing at the front of TE and it looks like a feathered packing piece at the rear also it looks like you added some height to part 232.

The only thing i see different is that i shaped my TE at the curve first,yours still looks straight.Perhaps me shaping first made it more complicated.I am going to keep watching to see how you handle the resr of the TE,please add more pictures.

I have been checking the post often to see if any more help came.Eddy from DBS+S did post and offered the original poster to contact him for help.Not wanting to take advantage and phone myself i PM`d him to ask if i can phone him but i think he does not visit here much so still waiting for a reply on that BUT it looks like you have solved my issue.Do you intend to keep the build posted Tomas?

Tomas Dunker27/07/2012 19:47:45
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76 forum posts
84 photos

I think Eddie is a very busy man. When I tried to email him after I bought the kit he has often been slow to answer, sometimes no response at all.

Of course I'll try to update my site as construction progresses.
**LINK**

/ Tomas D.

Edited By Tomas Dunker on 27/07/2012 19:54:16

Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale28/07/2012 08:23:14
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94 forum posts
1 photos

Well now! there's a turn up, I hadn't realised that I had missed responding to an email, but sure enough I had missed one on 15/05/12. It obviously became unhighlighted as we scanned through them for importance and not re-highlighted as unread (Sorry). Most people send another as a nudge rather than putting it on a forum, but that's life. Regarding answering late, that was while we were away at shows as our auto response said at the time.

As for accepting phone calls for help, I have already in this thread made that quite clearl that we are always ready to help, but as the saying goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink". Suffice to say that if people decline the offer, what can we do???

Eddie.

Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale28/07/2012 08:33:12
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94 forum posts
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Hello Thomas,

I am not sure what your email was getting at, but it may be this; **LINK** Have fun.

Eddie.

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