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A, B, C or any certificate

wot u got then? SAA, BMFA, LMA, certs

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Alan Cantwell19/08/2012 22:15:05
3039 forum posts

Having struggled today with the weather to take 3 out of 7 guys for A certs, i was wondering, whose actually bothered to obtain them, and who does not care, wotugot???,

To start the ball rolling, am an A,B certed, BMFA Examiner, BMFA instructor, LMA Proficency, dont actually know why there are so many, just seem to have obtained them over the yearsteeth 2

Bob Cotsford19/08/2012 22:18:16
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A cert, but I only went for it last year (after decades flying rc) as I fancied going to fly-ins. Now I'd like to go for a B just for my own satisfaction.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator19/08/2012 22:31:57
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A-cert. Been meaning to take the B for yonks - I'll get round to it one day! The thing in my club is that, as we fly on public land, there is a club rule that says you have to have an A-cert to fly solo. So there is a enormous incentive to do that. But the incentive to carry on to the B-cert is much weaker!

Generally speaking I support the achievemnt scheme. I think it encourages people to think about their flying and helps to promote safety. Note, I'm not saying that anyone who hasn't got a certificate doesn't think about their flying or is unsafe - I just think that the scheme provides a good framework that encourages folks to do it. It also gives people a standard to aim at - and there is some satisfaction in that.

BEB

Chris Bott - Moderator19/08/2012 22:52:46
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B cert myself, because in our club we need a B cert to instruct.

I found that the hardest thing to do for the B was to arrange one, although for us just at the moment we have some willing examiners who are helpful when it comes to these arrangements.

The answers to passing the B were having a good knowledge of the relevant BMFA guidelines on safety for the questions, and practice practice practice for the flying.

Oddly it gave me a good confidence boost passing the B. Silly really, just 'cos someone told me I could fly, it boosted my flying no end.

Phil 919/08/2012 22:57:44
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No Cert for me

I have been a member of two different clubs since I started flying models both BMFA clubs but nether had a member who is an examiner

Alan Cantwell19/08/2012 23:00:03
3039 forum posts

some feedback from the guys who have certs, but no views from the umpteen who have looked in,

Martin Harris19/08/2012 23:34:45
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I got my B a few years back and do a bit of instructing but haven't bothered with the BMFA instructor qualification (as far as I'm aware no-one in our club has),

Like BEB, I think the scheme has some definite merits - and I agree that the possession of any certificate doesn't necessarily make you a good pilot (although I would have a great deal of respect for any C holder as this IS a real test of aerobatic skills in my opinion) and readily acknowledge that many fine pilots dont hold an A.

The B gives me freedom to fly larger models within our club rules and at other sites so is well worthwhile to me. I don't think it's beyond any average pilot who makes the effort and I certainly always encourage others within our club to have a go.

For a club, the A is a useful standard to aim for to ensure pilots are likely to be safe to operate unsupervised - I know there are many who will question the need but it seems a fair standard which shouldn't be seen as a barrier if the examiner applies the standards fairly.

Concorde Speedbird19/08/2012 23:39:32
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Nothing for me, never flown in a club or even anywhere with other modellers (who are not in the family). I think I'd like to get a certificate, don't know why.

Never been a fan of clubs who have IC time restrictions and electric only days, it does not make me feel welcome to be restricted on flying times with my IC planes (all of my fleet!), especially with such variable weather in this country.

I can understand noise restrictions, that is fair, but looking at a certain club's website the restrictions are very odd, (if you recognise this as your club, no hard feelings, just an example I found, I don't hate your club! I am sure it is a great friendly club!), with 10am-2pm on some days, 1pm-7pm on a day, 5pm-8:30pm on some etc. Electric can go when they want. If a plane passes the noise test, why can't you have 10am-6-7pm on all days (apart from Sunday)? Some clubs are alright though, with IC any time but most have restrictions, which I am just not a fan of really.

The awards scheme, never tried it, don't know if I would feel comfortable with someone examining me while I start up, fly etc. I think it could put more pressure on me, and I have found with more pressure (transmitter battery warning beeping) I make more mistakes, more chance of an accident. Then again, I may be wrong.

I don't know how I feel about pilots being ranked, the experts with B's, the improvers on A's etc. I like to think 'All pilots are equal' (you can tell I have been studying Animal farm!)

There you go clubbers, plenty to read! Please club people don't hate me!blush Opinions welcome!

CS

moorer19/08/2012 23:41:19
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206 forum posts

I have an A cert that i obtained back in the 90s when it was a club rule if you wanted to fly on your own,never got the chance of a B due to all the examiners leaving the club!

bouncebounce crunch19/08/2012 23:46:44
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Safety comes first for me BEB. I dont have any certificate to say i can fly solo, or safely do a specific manouvre, but if needed for insurance purposes, then enforcement at the hobby shop in conjunction with clubs.eg: produce it before you can buy an arf or bindnfly (kit builders i assume are not the newcomer) will have A cert in the plenty of flyers hands, again safety is number one as i like my fingers and eyes, as well as my home, car and models, i dont want them gone because I didn't take safety seriuosly.

I will agree that any goals to reach for each certificate will improve safety and flying skill but as in the featured videos, on this site, about the stall (Just to use as an example) the guy with the P47 didnt recognise the stall and claimed radio failure, but another voice told him what happened. what cert would he have been on?

bbc

flyeruk19/08/2012 23:48:22
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I dont fly at any club,and have no intention of doing so.Im not a club type,i like to fly alone. Having said that,i have met some really friendly flyers where i fly and really enjoy there company and help.They are all certificate holders,A and B. The only reason i would and have considered take the A is for my own satisfaction.

Andy Symons20/08/2012 00:22:50
222 forum posts

Posted by ConcordeSpeedbird on 19/08/2012 23:39:32:

Never been a fan of clubs who have IC time restrictions and electric only days, it does not make me feel welcome to be restricted on flying times with my IC planes (all of my fleet!), especially with such variable weather in this country.

I can understand noise restrictions, that is fair, but looking at a certain club's website the restrictions are very odd, (if you recognise this as your club, no hard feelings, just an example I found, I don't hate your club! I am sure it is a great friendly club!), with 10am-2pm on some days, 1pm-7pm on a day, 5pm-8:30pm on some etc. Electric can go when they want. If a plane passes the noise test, why can't you have 10am-6-7pm on all days (apart from Sunday)? Some clubs are alright though, with IC any time but most have restrictions, which I am just not a fan of really.

Quite often when a club applies for planning permission the council will impose restrictions on times when IC can be flown which is almost certainly why the times you have seen are in force.

bouncebounce crunch20/08/2012 00:30:49
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I have a club field close by and never see any models flying after lunch and all missing that great hour before the sun goes down, yet they start flying 8 in the morning. I dont know if that is choice or club restrictions, never been over to ask.

bbc.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator20/08/2012 00:35:35
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Just a friendly pointer chaps - the thread is a about the achivement scheme and flying other certification routes, not noise regs, club membership versus flying alone or restricted flying times wink 2

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 20/08/2012 00:37:18

Mark Powell 220/08/2012 04:14:28
430 forum posts

I like the BMFA, been in it for years. But it can be a bit of a 'universal nanny' at times. The certificates are part of this. I fully see the need for insurance, and I fully see that councils and the like might be more inclined to grant permission for model flying if there is some sort of 'formal' judgement of the competence of the people who want to fly on council land.

That said, one should be careful. Introduce one rule and you can be sure that others will be introduced.  If the BMFA certification scheme did not exist then clubs could not insist on their members having the certificates. Personally I would prefer not to join a club if it required such certificates, but I would try and get them if I actually wanted to join that particuler club. I fly on public, but not council,  land, and the 'owners' (not really owners, it is public land, more administrators)  have quite correctly made it a condition that it be open to all, no certificates, club membership, etc. required. Third party insurance is required. Also sensible.

Personally I don't have them. Don't see any practical need. On our site only a tiny percentage do. Sensible for public displays. I wonder if Ali has got one? Probably not, rules often don't apply to the well known. Seen that a lot. Even where I fly we have certain rules. A particular clique ignores them with impunity. I  would be 'picked up' if I ignored them.

 

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 04:28:05

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 04:30:48

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 04:36:04

Mark Powell 220/08/2012 05:48:15
430 forum posts

Rules in general. I note BEB's comment, but I think this applies to all hobbies including model planes. Hobbies are supposed to be fun. Not formal things where people have to be 'obeyed'.

I trout fish on the world famous River Test. Has been called 'Clearer than gin and ten times the price'. Was valued ten years ago at £1500 a yard. Our syndicate, twelve members, has seven miles, but had it for 100 years so 'todays value' does not matter. We don't have any written rules whatsoever. If you don't know what they are without being told you shouldn't be there. We certainly don't  have 'Certificates of competence'.

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 05:49:00

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 05:52:26

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 06:01:00

Andy Ennis20/08/2012 07:24:16
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I sense some antagonism to the BMFA achievement scheme, that I don't understand.

It's a voluntary scheme, and nobody at the BMFA is forcing anyone to have an A or B certificate.

Admittedly, some clubs use the A cert as the benchmark for safe solo flying, and some (most?) show organisers apply the B cert as showing that you have reached a level indicating you would be safe flying in public, and I personally think this is no bad thing, but this is down to the clubs and shows concerned, not the BMFA.

If people and/or clubs aren't interested in obtaining these certificates that's fine, noone is holding a gun to your head to do so!

ps Alan, I have the A & B, and used to be an examiner, but that lapsed when I had a couple of years layoff from flying.

Mark Powell 220/08/2012 07:37:15
430 forum posts

It is not antagonism, in my case at least. It is simply that I think such schemes, by their very existence, tend to influence, if not actively encourage (I have never known the BMFA to do that) clubs and the like to implement them in their rules. This thus excludes people who, for their own reasons, do not wish to be 'tested' on what is, after all, a hobby.

If people want to take them, fine. But insisting on them in clubs is PRECISELY holding 'a gun to their head'.

.

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 07:37:52

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 07:40:44

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 07:46:12

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 07:53:24

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 07:54:18

Rich too20/08/2012 07:53:22
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Posted by Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 05:48:15:

Rules in general. I note BEB's comment, but I think this applies to all hobbies including model planes. Hobbies are supposed to be fun. Not formal things where people have to be 'obeyed'.

I trout fish on the world famous River Test. Has been called 'Clearer than gin and ten times the price'. Was valued ten years ago at £1500 a yard. Our syndicate, twelve members, has seven miles, but had it for 100 years so 'todays value' does not matter. We don't have any written rules whatsoever. If you don't know what they are without being told you shouldn't be there. We certainly don't have 'Certificates of competence'.

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 05:49:00

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 05:52:26

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 20/08/2012 06:01:00

very well put, and I couldn't agree more.

I don't have any certs, mainly because I don't belong to a club so I don't need one . Its not that i want to fly alone, its that i just want to turn up and fly! If i'm not flying I go home! I don't have the time to stand around chatting all day wiating to get in the air. Too many restrcitions with a club.

Rich

Phil 920/08/2012 08:05:04
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Posted by bouncebouncecrunch on 19/08/2012 23:46:44:

(kit builders i assume are not the newcomer)

bbc

Totally wrong to assume this. The DeAgostini practically encouraged total novices to build a totally inappropriate model) the first thing I wanted to do after buying my very first RCM&E was build the free plan

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