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Steve Dunning23/02/2013 21:33:11
324 forum posts
186 photos

Hi Gary

Yes, things are still on course. You've probably seen that the Festival of Flight is on for the Saturday of the two day event. Paul B was in touch and is having another Sleap 'do' and two more are in the pipeline when sorted. Please watch this space.

Gary Vinten 123/02/2013 22:03:06
535 forum posts
349 photos
1 articles

Thanks Steve will be there !

terry westrop24/02/2013 22:38:12
193 forum posts
46 photos

Hi there all. I was just seeking Ed Kasmiski's Orion on the net & amongst the findings, this website showed! It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out. It's a nice idea. The Orion was my very first 'aerobatic inspiration' way back in '65, was still @ school then! This guy was flying a schedule with a yellow Orion on reeds, the Merco 61 sounded brill. That was on the Henlow Camp aerodrome, Beds. The change over from reeds to prop was just beginning.

Anyhow, I'll not prolong, but look forward to watching how this little venture developes. Good luck.

Bob Cotsford25/02/2013 10:13:28
avatar
8260 forum posts
454 photos

mmmm Loaded Dice....

terry westrop25/02/2013 11:12:06
193 forum posts
46 photos

.......mmmm, I confess Bob. Think the old LD would make the grade for classic? Still got several sitting in my lockup.

Bob Cotsford25/02/2013 13:04:27
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8260 forum posts
454 photos

Terry, the concensus from earlier posts seems to make the mid-80s the cut-off point though the first 60 powered LD is close to the spirit of things - a builders model, moderate engine requirements, nothing too complicated. Maybe just 7 years too young, it's only a nipper at 21ish!

terry westrop25/02/2013 15:48:05
193 forum posts
46 photos

Thx Bob. It was written 'tongue in cheek' actually. This is my 2nd day looking into this new aspect of model flying, so I know nothing really. I have seen Ken's pacemaker on here & thought even that to be rather new. The old style FAI 'pattern' ended in '83 I believe, turnround beginning the next year & changes in model design followed naturally.

I do like the early models, your Altair is one that I recall from the very early days of RC aeros & I like. But how closely must this or any other similar design adhere to the original? I know the Orion (another of Ed's designs) has a semi section! Ok for reeds, but as we realised, propo needs no stability. Can anyone get a copy of the altair plans?

Bob Cotsford25/02/2013 20:30:16
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8260 forum posts
454 photos

Terry, it's an 80" King Altair from the mid 60s, Vic Hussacks vision of the way things were going (bigger, and he was right) based on his existing Altair 60 size design. Mine is from an American kit by Classic RC Hobbies but from the look of the site they may not be available at present. I do have the plans however they are not of a size to pop into an A4 envelope. If you wanted a loan of them PM me your address and I'll find some way to post them. A big cardboard tube would be the jobbie.

As for how accurate, well personally I think that's up to the individual as to how authentic you want your experience. For example, my Blue Angel is actually a foam and glass repro from a German company but it looks right and flies right. As the design was marketed in both wood and glass forms over the years I feel fine with the thought of flying it at the retro get togethers. My Tornado is from a genuine Crescent kit. Both use OS61SFs rather than FSRs in order to keep the noise under control. Come to that the KA has an MVVS 90 with a tuned pipe, again in order to run a 14" prop quietly. The name of the game is fun with a hint of nostalgia. I have no intention whatsoever of using my period Horizon 8 in any of them!

Others may see things differently but that's my take on this gig.

Oh yes, I must start building my Mustfire from an original Frog kitsmile d. It's destined to get a modern Evolution petrol engine rather than the typical Merco 61 and there will be no balsa cement involved.

terry westrop25/02/2013 22:43:28
193 forum posts
46 photos

That's a big airplane Bob! What's the AUW? I have aeromodeller mags from back then with all these championship models featured from time to time, including the Altair I'd certainly like to see the plan, consider the design's potential when compared with others. Is it semi or fully sym wing? How do I get my address to you? I'm near kings lynn. Are you local to this location?

How do you manage to acquire OE kits like the frog & crescent examples..?

I do have a number of aerobatic plans from RM & RCM&E circa 1977. Is the Kingpin by dave platt ok for this, for eg? Or Chris Olsen's Upset?

That blue angel was from a Japanese flier I recall, not the easiest aero model to fly accurately due to the swept wing. Looks impressive tho.

It'll be interesting to see how the rules develop, however 'flexy' they are.

terry westrop01/03/2013 11:16:05
193 forum posts
46 photos

Hello again Bob. Could you possibly email me plans on a file? I'd like to see the design. I have downloaded several from another US website this way, (Taurus, Orion, Flea Fli). They are not of sufficient size to build from but provide a clue as to how good they might fly. Is The Altair available @ around 70" wing? I'm assuming the larger of the two in the photo a ways back in this section is the 80"..?

Bob Cotsford01/03/2013 11:51:28
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8260 forum posts
454 photos

Sorry Terry, the plans are much to big for me to scan - 2 sheets something like 2' * 8' each. There are some photos from the build here. If you specifically want electronic format you could try emailling Jeff who produces the Classic RC Hobby kits, if he has stopped production he might be amenable to emailing you the CAD files for the plans.

Colin Leighfield01/03/2013 12:59:21
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5982 forum posts
2501 photos

Hope you don't mind me following you blokes, this is fascinating. I remember going to the National aerobatic championships in 1962, my last year at school, at Wellesbourne, which was then an active RAF base. The models competing included one Smog Hog, which was already then "old hat", which crashed and was written off, a few Astro Hogs and a number of Orions, which were the latest thing and as I recall one of them won. Radio gear was all Orbit reed, I think. Can't recall if there was a dominant engine, although they were predominantly 60/61 except for the poor old Smog Hog, which had a 40 I think. (Can't imagine why I remember that)!

In the following year or two I seem to remember that the Orion then was eclipsed by the Taurus, which reigned supreme for a while. My flying has never reached the standard for me to be a competent aerobatic pilot, but the models always interested me. As I mentioned to Bob a few days ago, I've got the plans for the Mustfire and the Veron Concord, my "to-do" list is already too long, but I've always liked the Mustfire.

terry westrop01/03/2013 17:12:59
193 forum posts
46 photos

Nice to see other members taking an active interest in our discussion. Orion is my 1st aero inspiration also. Flying aeros on reeds is something else, those guys have my admiration. I recall the intro of Propo was not without issues, many a model ending up in a bag.

Taurus was responsible for influencing many aero designers. Altair would appear to be a good example.

Orion & Mustfire, very similar lookers, both on my consider list. How did Bob acquire his kit??

Have you Altair Jeff's email address Bob?

Bob Cotsford01/03/2013 22:00:26
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8260 forum posts
454 photos

I've sent it in a PM Terry.

I saw the Mustfire kit advertised in this forum's classifieds section. I'm afraid finding this sort of thing is just down to scanning auction sites and classified ad sites on a regular basis - a bit of luck helps!

terry westrop01/03/2013 22:57:25
193 forum posts
46 photos

Thank you Bob. I've emailed Jeff.

An original Mustfire kit, very rare item! Seems a shame to build it in a way. Are you going to employ the 'box lid' colour scheme? It's the one I always see as the Mustfire.

Peter Jenkins02/03/2013 00:04:13
1400 forum posts
152 photos

I got the last Tauros kit from Jeff and have got a Veco 45 off e-bay that is being worked on for me at the moment. Always wanted a Taurus so I'm over the moon with having one after 50 years of waiting! I've got a couple of other build projects to get done first so I don't expect to have the Tauros built until mid 2013. I'll stick some pix up when I'm done. One of the projects before it is an original Gangster 75 kit with ST90 and Hanno Pipe - should have unlimited vertical!

Bob Cotsford02/03/2013 09:55:39
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8260 forum posts
454 photos

It would be more of a shame not to build it, what good is a pile of wood stuck in a box? These kits were meant to be built and flown so that's what I do. At worst I've got a couple of TopFlite and Pica kits tucked away but they may not be built until I get the time and inclination, but built they will be. The plans will be around for a long time so the designs are not lost, but having the completed models in the air at fly-ins allows others to see how things used to be and maybe encourages a few to try building a traditional model.

terry westrop02/03/2013 10:18:44
193 forum posts
46 photos

ST 90+hanno pipe is quite a combination! That was a super, easy pipe to use. I presume it's the red version?

Can you still get parts for these old motors then? Does the Veco have the 'venturi' silencer? (straight through!) I had a Veco 61 in a Kingpin, was very powerfull, but the venturi silencer was rather loud & frowned upon even back then in '77.

Seems like you all have projects allocated whilst I have yet to decide which design to tackle.........

terry westrop02/03/2013 10:25:28
193 forum posts
46 photos

Yes, I know Bob. I often think back to my school days when I had a new kit. I would drool over it for ages. When I could afford I would then draw round each part onto balsa & build from the reproduced parts leaving the kit intact. Silly I guess.

Must agree with the traditional build thing. These days 'modellers' are so quickly tempted to buy ARF. But we are gradually losing the art of model building, (& designing).

Peter Jenkins02/03/2013 11:23:52
1400 forum posts
152 photos

Hi Terry,

Yes it's a red Hanno pipe that I managed to get 2nd hand. Motor and Rotors do ST engines still and may have spares for the older ones - but I've yet to find out!

As for the Veco, it came without the exhaust restrictor so it has two holes on either side of the exhaust stack but a friend has volunteered to "sort it" and get a silencer on to it. Until I try to run it, it will not be clear if all the internal bits are still OK. It feels OK so I'm hoping for the best. However, it it proves to be severely damaged internally, then I'll stick one of my Irvine 53s in and even though that will be more powerful than the original Veco 45 I can always run a big prop on it.

Before I started building my Gangster 75, I traced round all the parts as well as the wing root and tip sections so I would be able to make myself a kit of parts if the worst happens. Mind you, I'll need to remember to cut the parts to the inside of the pencil line!

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