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New with some questions

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Rob Hawkins24/01/2013 18:37:12
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Hi,

I'm new to RC flying and having discovered the RCM&E mag thought I'd sign up here after noticing lots of positve comments for new comers.

I have some questions but before I get there I'll take a couple of seconds to tell you where I'm at (or not!) with flying so far.

I've purchased Phoenix RC4 along with a Spektrum DX5e TX and to date have put in about 10 hours with the Mentor trainer plan. I also have a Max Thrust Riot which is still in the box until I reach at least 30 hours on Phoenix to ensure I don't get tempted and also I live in France.

I have also just joined my local club and obtained a licence in France so that I can meet people and progress with my new hobbie hopefully quickly whilst having a lot of fun (this will be a challenge as my French is still below average at best!)

I've read a bit of a book on the basics and have been practising (mainly in calm weather) take offs, landings, flying figures eights and also some boxes to help with lining up for landings.

So my questions in no particular order are as follows:

1) My DX5e has a French mode which I have enabled as soon as it arrived but I'm not sure what the impact of enabling this is - What does it actually do and why is it needed in France?

2) Is the Mentor the best plane to train on in Phoenix given I have the RIOT waiting in the wings. I see that there is a low wing trainer as well which having had a quick few flights has no or little self correction as a result I guess of no diheidral. Should I learn with this on the simulator of go with 2 planes to get the best of both worlds?

3) I've tested the different wind settings in Phoenix and am not sure what is realistic for a gusty type day and what wind speeds you just would not fly at? Some of the settings seem to just blow the plane over on the airstrip before I even get started!! Is the m/s meteres per second?

If you could advise on what you would consider to be a medium type realistic situation that would be great so I can train with it asap.

I guess that's it for starters - Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Rob

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator24/01/2013 21:50:17
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HI Rob,

and welcome to the forum!

I think the smartest thing you've done so far is to join a club - definitely a good move! Also practicing on Phoenix is also a good plan. But you have to bear in mind that at the end of the day it is a simulation - it can help to prepare you for the real thing, but it isn't a complete substitute. Only "stick time" will really teach you to fly! The Riot is a good choice by the way - but livelier than the Mentor!

I find winds of about 10m/s good in Phoenix, start with a constant wind striaght down the strip, then experiment adding gusts and randomness and most importantly practice with winds aligned at an angle to strip all the way up to a full cross wind.

Regarding model types in Phoenix I'd certainly recommend trying lots of different ones - they will test your orientation and reaction skills! The riot is more like the WOT4 in real life - but not in Phoenix!!! The Phoenix WOT4 has a flat bottomed wing and flies like a very docile trainer - if you want a taste of what the Riot will be like edit the Phoenix WOT4 to have a semi-symmetrical wing profile - then you'll get a better idea.

On the "French Mode" I seem to remember there was something about 2.4 being allowed to transmit at higher powers in parts of Europe? But I'm a bit vague on it. We do have several members who are "ex-pats" living in France, PeteB, Terry Walters and Ernie being some examples. I'm sure that one or more of them will be along soon to welcome you and they will know more about that aspect.

BEB

John Cole25/01/2013 11:17:20
615 forum posts
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The permitted frequency band for R/C on 2.4 GHz is narrower in France than elsewhere in Europe. See this earlier thread. Set it to France and don't worry.

Pete B - Moderator25/01/2013 13:38:37
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Welocme to the forum, Rob. There are a few forumites over here, so you're not alone!

An update on the French situation. From July 2012, the restriction on 2.4Ghz no longer applied in France. You can now use the full range of frequencies. Apart from narrowing the waveband, the French setting meant that full DSMX was not available and the DSM2 protocol was used.

It didn't have much impact on me as I tend to fly alone and never with 40+ models in the air at once!

By leaving it on the EU setting, you'll get the full benefit of DSMX.

Pete.

Rob Hawkins25/01/2013 15:50:30
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Thanks very much for the useful information especially regarding the French regulations foe RC.

I'm looking forward to the first flight with my Riot but will first complete at least another 20 hours in Phoenix with the aformentioned WOT 4 wing modification to make it a bit more realistic.

I've played around with the wind settings in Phoenix and have found landing very, very difficult as the plane rears up into the air on approach when there's a strong oncoming gust. What's the correct technique on final approach for getting it on the ground before it gets whipped up into the air and then tossed to the ground on it's propeller?

I have another question re my Spektrum. It has a high/low rates switch with the low according to the manual providing 70% of the range and thus more time to think about things as they happen which sounds quite important early on!! Do you think that reducing to 70% when I first fly the Riot will make it a forgiving enough experience for a new boy with around 30 hours on the Sim?

Exciting times ahead!!!!

Cheers

Rob

Rob Hawkins25/01/2013 16:20:16
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Just got around to looking at changing the WOT 4 wing profile as mentioned above. I've gone to edit the plane in Phoenix RC4 and under main wing there are loads of options! Mine is currently set to trainer but would someone best kind as to tell me which one meets the semi-symmetrical type mentioned above to make it more like the Riot?

Cheers

Rob

wayne young25/01/2013 16:35:51
24 forum posts

Hey rob,

the guys fly mentors at are field and many newbies use this plane as a trainer it flies very stable and is a good electric trainer.. The flight sim is a good way to learn the basic controls but I found it does not teach you the distance

wayne young25/01/2013 16:38:21
24 forum posts

Also take the wind speed off until you are more confident as when at the field you won't fly in high wind anyway..I kept to one plane as well until I could take off and land and also do a threw rolls loops etc..

Pete B - Moderator25/01/2013 17:14:59
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Posted by Rob Hawkins on 25/01/2013 15:50:30:

I've played around with the wind settings in Phoenix and have found landing very, very difficult as the plane rears up into the air on approach when there's a strong oncoming gust. What's the correct technique on final approach for getting it on the ground before it gets whipped up into the air and then tossed to the ground on it's propeller?

I have another question re my Spektrum. It has a high/low rates switch with the low according to the manual providing 70% of the range and thus more time to think about things as they happen which sounds quite important early on!! Do you think that reducing to 70% when I first fly the Riot will make it a forgiving enough experience for a new boy with around 30 hours on the Sim?

Phoenix will certainly contribute to you developing a 'finger-memory' with the controls so that you won't have to think too much about what they are doing when you're flying a model for real. However, no amount of simulation is a substitute for the real thing - and it is much the same, but very different, IYSWIM!

One of the biggest steps forward in flying is when you realise that you are commanding the model to move in a particular direction, rather than you following it around in the airsmile On an approach as you describe, it is important that you react to the gust and keep the model on course for your touch-down point, in effect, 'driving through' the effects of the gust. This can only come through experience, when your fingers react almost without you thinking about it.

In practice, if the gust lifts the model too far for a practical recovery, you should open the throttle and go-around, otherwise you'll find yourself landing way down the strip.

Rates are very useful. I tend to use low rates for take-off, landing and scale-type flight. If I want to throw it around, I'll switch to full rates on the ailerons - not often necessary on elevator, but it depends on what you want to do.

More importantly (and some may differsmile) expo can be very helpful in smoothing out the reactions of the flying surfaces by de-sensitising the sticks at their neutral point and can contribute to a smoother flight pattern.

I tend to use it on most, if not all, of my models - about 40% but it varies with the model - and it's very much a personal thing. I'd always maiden a model with expo in case it proves to be very twitchy - you can always take it out if not required - but you can't put it in once you've taken-off!

Pete

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator25/01/2013 17:48:02
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Posted by Rob Hawkins on 25/01/2013 16:20:16:

Just got around to looking at changing the WOT 4 wing profile as mentioned above. I've gone to edit the plane in Phoenix RC4 and under main wing there are loads of options! Mine is currently set to trainer but would someone best kind as to tell me which one meets the semi-symmetrical type mentioned above to make it more like the Riot?

Cheers

Rob

Hi Rob,

I've just checked and I have it set as NACA0015 at both root and tip with a +2.0 degree incidence at root and tip as well. That seems to give a flight performance much more like a real WOT4 - the Riot as I said feels quite like a WOT4 so that should give you an idea of what to expect.

BEB

Josip Vrandecic -Mes25/01/2013 18:53:42
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2993 forum posts
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Hello Rob,welcome,I think that You're on an exciting way....have a fun...smile p

Cheers

Joe

Rob Hawkins25/01/2013 20:01:36
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10 forum posts

More great advise thanks and I'll certainly plug those settings into Phoenix to see how the WOT4 flys in that configuration.

I'll start to set myself some more stricty landing targets so I've got something to focus on rather than just trying to hit the strip! I've found with the mentor that a head wind of any strength just sends it upwards and even with more throtttle the plane just seems to hover before plumetting, my technique I'm sure

There's a mention of Expo above but I'm not sure what it is or what it does?

Cheers

Rob

Pete B - Moderator26/01/2013 11:28:06
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Posted by Rob Hawkins on 25/01/2013 20:01:36:

There's a mention of Expo above but I'm not sure what it is or what it does?

Just checked the Dx5e spec and it doesn't have exponential, so it's not available to you at present, Rob.smile

It is a Tx function which reduces the sensitivity of the control sticks around the mid-point by making the response to the stick input non-linear, ie, a small movement of the stick produces no response but as you increase the movement, response increases until full stick throw produces full control surface movement.

There is a quite useful forum glossary here which explains this and other terms you'll come across - alternatively, just ask away - plenty of helpful folk herethumbs up

Pete

Ernie26/01/2013 12:07:19
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2528 forum posts
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Hi Rob, I've been flying here for quite a few years, Initally on Futaba 35, with horrendous results. I think I was shot down by a passing police car who were on an illegal frequency.

But, its all sorted now. My 2.4 Futaba TX has a wee switch inside that says France, so it's all fine. Also my Spekky, which I bought here gives no problems. I find it's difficult that all the local flyers here ( Charante Maritime) use throttle right, so it's difficult to hand over to someone if I need to wipe my glasses etc.

ernie

Rob Hawkins26/01/2013 14:07:58
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10 forum posts

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess i will get used to the range of movement in the sticks and make good use of the rates switch taking things down to 70%.

The glossary of terms has been book marked and I'm sure will be put to good use over the coming weeks.

Ernie - glad to hear I'm not alone in France, I'm in Savoie and have yet to visit my new club but hope to in the next week or so. My DX5E is a left throttle so I may also be alone but it feels quite natural for me at the moment so I can't see me changing! The unit has a French mode which I've activated to be safe but evidently this is no longer a requirement since last year but ill check with the club soon.

Cheers

Rob

Rob Hawkins26/01/2013 14:09:08
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10 forum posts

Ps - if anyone is laughing at my photo it's aspirational only for the time being smiley

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator26/01/2013 14:36:00
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Nowt wrong with an apsirational photo! smile I could use on myself from time to time!

BEB

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