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Traplet 94" Hadley Page HP42 CofG ?

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PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap26/03/2013 13:33:16
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Can anyone help me out here Looking for the C of G position for this rare 94" wingspan model. Built from Traplet plans.2 hadley page hp42.jpg

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap26/03/2013 15:43:56
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HANDLEY PAGE HP42 R/c Model Plane.smiley Just in case you missed the heading above - also put in so any search engine can see it - fingers crossed for a reply - regards Peter.

cymaz27/03/2013 06:48:35
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Try this

Works for meidea

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap27/03/2013 10:26:05
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Many thanks for the link and I will see what else comes in over time (hope). I have a good idea where the CofG should be but the aerofoil wing profile used on this model is not the same as on the Traplet plans - why this was done I have no idea thinking however I am clear that when it was flying (originally electric but recently converted to IC) the take off run was "extensive" which could be down to the wing section profile. Also as this is a biplane there is currently NO downthrust or sidethrust built in which makes things worsedevil. I do not want to "suck it and see" so I am trying to see if I can take a few of the "unknowns" out of the equations. Your link will help me and I thank you for taking the time to reply as this link is one of the best I have seen thumbs upso I know it will also help others on the same quest - Regards Peter.smiley

cymaz27/03/2013 10:41:08
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I found it great....I have a stampe (not from Precedent). The fus was 25mm shorter than the Prec Kit but the wings and tail are the same dimentions . I put all the info in and the C of G calculater and it was 5mm different from the Prec plans I have. Checked with the model and it was as calculated.

So it is pretty accurate thumbs upthumbs up

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap27/03/2013 10:57:05
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Got my fingers crossed...

stu knowles27/03/2013 12:22:33
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Hello Peter,

This is my '42, 120 inch 4 x 46 two strokes and near 35lb. A 30 year old hanger queen which we took on, intrigued to see if it would fly.

After running out of excuses we finally took it out to commit aviation and to everyones surprise, it flies beautifully. The CG was guessed at about 25% top wing chord but TBH with so much wing area and a long tail moment, it has all of the attributes needed to fly well.

This one is adequately powered but you have to allow time to let it accellerate before 'applying to climb' and by the same token it has considerable built in drag, more so with four idling props. It needs to be flown all the way down in a powered glide, only shutting down to idle as the wheels touch. If slowed too much it has a sharp stall but it flies in a steady and stately manner as befitting the prototype.

Give it a go, you might be pleasantly surprised by how it performs.

stu k

more pics here

http://www.donvalleymfc.co.uk/page30.html

 

Edited By stu knowles on 27/03/2013 12:30:42

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap27/03/2013 20:14:41
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Hi Stu.face 1

You are giving me something to think about and I do want to see it in the air. Currently has 2x25 two strokes but I am not confident this will be enough on a grass strip. Did notice that they all seem to need a good run of speed before lift off. I think I have the CofG sorted - thanks to all - so now its the nitty gritty to sort out but the power side is currently a worry as to have to go and buy say 4x 40s would set my pocket back a bit so I am going to give it a try at the field (when it dries out) and see how much speed I can develop down half the field - if it gets moving at all as there is a lot of weight digging in the three and a half inch wheels... Looked at your club site and seen the pictures of the old lady with the same Reg No as my beast and she looks grand. I have been working on the plane today and I am going to get everything functional and take it to the field to see if the power train fitted will work before I do anything else - if it looks like it will fly I will just fly a circuit and see what I think about the power situation because if its underpowered it makes flying so much harder... If all goes well I will then work on the cosmetic side - but it all depends on the power plants being ok.

Recon the all up weight is around 26 lbs at the moment for the 94" beast...

I wonder how many other HP42s are around flying....thinking

Regards Peter

stu knowles27/03/2013 21:01:13
566 forum posts
44 photos

Not too many but it is surprising how many have thought that a four engined multi strutted biplane airliner is worth the effort. There have been a few on the LMA circuit. One beaut at around 17ft that wil be flying this year with Ian Redshaw and possibly one even bigger next year.

I also meant to say that all my engines are bolted on square, no side or down thrust.

Will 25s be enough?? hard to say. I have a 90 inch Chris Golds Lancaster on 2x 25fp and 2 x 20fp but that weighs in around 18lbs and a lot less drag. You could try 2x 40 on the lower nacelles as a halfway house.

I agree with you, I would have a few 'fast taxi' runs when the ground is hard. It will fly at slow speeds because it has a massive wing area but I have stalled mine a couple of times by attemping to climb too quickly and only got away with it by having a fair reserve under the left thumb. If yours gets airborne just give it time to get some hight under it before turning and keep the turns gentle using rudder as the main directional control.

Let us know how you get on.

cheers

stu k

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap27/03/2013 21:19:26
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Hi Stu. Thanks again for the vote of confidence... Its only the power side I have issue with and perhaps 2 x 40 on the lower wing will make me feel better - and its always better ho have that bit in reserve.

Seen the LMA one and it looks great in the air with a good presence which is why I went for this as I am far from conventional with my planes so tend to get problems because I am unconventional but thats the fun of it. Will let you know how things progress in the future. Regards Peterthumbs up

cymaz28/03/2013 06:45:12
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I know its not the same but I have a couple of Irvine .40's in a seagull Dual Ace....very nice motors, not expensive and will fly my DA on 1/2 throttle. So a couple of those might suit you.

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap28/03/2013 09:45:24
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Hi. Perhaps this is the way to go but I will run up the 25s and see what power there is there. I have been sorting the throttle linkages as they were not even and at full throttle only one carb barrel was 100% open so now I know I can get 100% from the engines I will see that they can do. I hope to start the engines next Tuesday 2nd April (with luck) The engines are running 9x6 props which should be fine. Another factor to fitting larger engine is that of prop ground clearance as the largest prop to give grass ground clearance - but that decision will be left for another day after evaluating the model.

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap29/03/2013 13:19:56
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After looking at the whole project I now feel to stand a good chance of this plane flying again I will have to "bite the bullet" and fit larger engines. A number of reasons for this but the first two stand out...

1) My birthdays next week so I end up getting two engines "free" - thanks to wife Jan and mate Dave.

2) My contribution will now only be half the original total cost so very good value. (linked to one above).

3) If I am going to do major work required to fit the bottom two engines (needs top wing removal) I may as well do all the four in one hit then there will never be any power issue.

4) As major work is involved I may as well renovate the whole model...

5) The drastic actions above are due to information gained here - Thanks Stu / Cymaz.

I have already done a lot to the model already and I took a few better and put them into a short video as a record.

cymaz29/03/2013 14:10:12
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Think of it as a learning curve and knowledge and experience gain.........I know how you feel. 11 months on and after a 15 month build I'm still doing final test flights of the General Western Meteor.

stu knowles29/03/2013 18:35:23
566 forum posts
44 photos

Hmm, Looks very nice.

I think that I would still give it a blast along the runway with the engines that are fitted.

does look nice though

stu k

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap29/03/2013 20:36:40
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Hi Stu. Already started rubbing the old lady down and finding all the old wounds from "prangs" gone by - Your comment regarding the wing stall got me a bit worried - our patch is a grass strip and the grass is sometimes a bit long which will make it harder to get up ground / airspeed for take off so if she lifts off at the end of our field heading towards the sea (common wind direction here in summer) I don't have a lot of time to climb before I need to turn which is why I feel some power in reserve would be the better option. As its my birthday shortly I get 4 engines for the price of two - no husband should turn his nose up at that kind of deal from the wife.angel 2 The weight of this model but its near 10 Kgs so its not that light and perhaps on tarmac it would get off with the original engines however on longish grass it would just bog down. To fly around the sky on half throttle would be nice with the other in reserve for the gusts and tribulations of flight is ideal. Now I have started I can also tackle the landing gear which currently is not sprung. I am trying to see if I can devise a sprung leg to ease the progress over our field. I don't want to get carried away too much because she is (like yours) a very old lady but it would be nice to tidy her up and restore a bit more of her looks. I also intend to paint her in a silver grey rather than use actual silver paint which seems to show every fault / scratch / bump & anything you can think of but a silver grey with a satin fuel proofer should look better in my view.

I will keep this site updated as time goes by - I don't tend to hang about once I start - engines are ordered and I collect them next Friday so in the meantime I can keep rubbing down and making good so I have plenty to do for the old girl but with each day she grows a bit younger & prettier.

Regards Peter smile

Mike Etheridge 130/03/2013 15:09:28
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412 photos

Good move Pete the 'Old Lady' will look a lot better after a 'nose job' with the new balsa block and I have to agree with the idea of providing additional power especially with the situation at the flying club field with ditches either end.

I was interested to note on the build of the Empire flying boat that the constructor is using aluminium 'Oracover' which if available at the time could well have suited the HP 42?

Let me know when the plane is going to fly.

Best Wishes,

Mike

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap30/03/2013 16:22:40
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Hi Mike.smiley

I started rubbing down the model in the shed yesterday however the dust was awesome so today I went out and got an electric sander and started outside in the freezing cold when I got backface 23. Making a better job than I could have done by hand and able to flatten out the repaired (long ago) fuzz planks so they should look a bit straighter and better - recon it's taken 4 years off the old girl so far but plenty more to go yet. I am so cold working outside I am honestly blueface 9 Tomorrow I can get a coat of sanding sealer on it and leave it overnight to dry and start sanding again. Other items ordered up today engine mounts,spinners & nice cherry wood props... Course I will let you know when it will fly. Regards Peter

Mike Etheridge 130/03/2013 16:55:19
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412 photos

Not surprised you are cold Pete. We have had bright sun today but less than half hour ago sleet started falling and still is and the grass in the garden has a white covering again!

No modelling for me today but have had a call from Steve Webb models about the Enya SS 45.

Best Wishes,

Mike

PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap04/04/2013 11:35:05
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UPDATE

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