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Gas turbine flying at your club site

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dbflyer18/04/2013 16:14:19
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Do any clubs out there have restrictions or even prohibit the flying of gas turbine powered models from your club field?

Codename-John18/04/2013 16:44:19
1087 forum posts
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You need BMFA B cert for Turbine or aircraft over 7 kg at mine, other than that its usual club rules that apply

Bucksboy18/04/2013 16:59:28
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We don't allow them, our site just doesn't have the airspace that these models can cover. We have close ish neighbours that we are keen not to upset. Members that have these sort of models have to join other, nearby clubs.

Simon Chambers18/04/2013 17:25:41
789 forum posts
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Our club allows them and has no restrictions (apart from no-fly area's, etc) - except you need an A-test to fly solo. However there is only one flying site now (out of a total of 4 sites) that really is suitable for them. There isn't that many turbine flyers that fly at our club, and those that do rarely get them out.

A bit further down the motorway is a club with a concrete runway which I know has turbine flyers. However their club has some rather stringent rules such as needing a B-test for jets and the aircraft+pilot has to be signed off by a committee member. Oh and all flying aircraft have to fly circuits in the same direction. disgust

Si.

Edited By Simon Chambers on 18/04/2013 17:26:29

GrahamC19/04/2013 22:46:40
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The only restrictions are the standard ones about having a 'B' certificate and then are to do with the surrounding crops. No jets allowed while there is a flammable crop in the surrounding fields.

Our site is a reasonable size, but in practice is not really suitable for the faster jets. We have a boomerang that flies from the site.

Martin Harris19/04/2013 23:14:12
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TBH I don't consider possessing a B to be a particularly stringent requirement. Committee member sign-off? Perhaps unusual but given the potential for instant conflagration and the potential energy in a 10kg 200mph projectile maybe not a bad idea if applied fairly.

We looked quite seriously at allowing jets a few years ago - Ali Mashinchi came along with a Hawk to give a demonstration as part of our feasibility study - but as we have a relatively small field surrounded by arable land and woods (housing a very expensive shoot) and a low ceiling we decided against jet operation. The general membership accepted the decision quite happily and the one member with a jet was quite happy (he was part of the study team) to operate it elswhere - especially as his Boomerang was only intended as a short-lived stepping stone/engine test bed to an F104.

Devon Flyer19/04/2013 23:24:28
622 forum posts

'B' Certificate required at our club for turbines or any other model over 7Kgs.

Old Geezer19/04/2013 23:36:04
603 forum posts

Definitely not with us, Golf Course on two sides, sports pitches abutt us on the other two sides and a major road about 400 yards away. Common sense.

Simon Chambers20/04/2013 00:27:24
789 forum posts
42 photos

Here is the 'other' clubs rules I was talking about:

North Wilts Model Aircraft Club Rules - found on their homepage

Those rules maybe useful if you're thinking of putting rules in.

As they have a tarmac runway, I would imagine they get a lot of Jet jocks.

Si.

Percy Verance20/04/2013 16:45:49
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No turbines at our site I'm afraid, for pretty much the same reason as Bucksboy stated. Our site is quite rural, and although the nearest farm (which is where the landowner lives) is some 400 metres from the nearest part of the field from which we fly, we simply do not want to cause any noise nuisance whatsoever. Turbine powered models, by their very nature, tend to be of the larger and faster variety. I'm also aware - from past experience - that turbines can sometimes leave scorchmarks on grass. One owner of a previous site from which I sometimes flew, objected to this and it eventually became something of a dealbreaker.

I must admit though, a turbine powered model is good to watch, and is almost always something of a spectacle. Sadly though, not all sites can accommodate them.

Devon Flyer

The BMFA recommend all pilots flying both turbines and models over 7kg hold "B" certs. As you say, some Clubs insist on it. Ours certainly does.

Edited By Percy Verance on 20/04/2013 16:49:17

Chris Marshall21/04/2013 23:24:49
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61 forum posts

Knowing something, though not all of what is behind your question Dave, I find I am somewhat dissapointed by a recent editorial comment in one magazine, which criticises some people IMHO in a somewhat biased and partisan way, who are to the best of my knowledge staying strictly within correct procedures. What you seem to be doing here is to research experience from other clubs and individuals in a measured and neutral manner. It is a pity that the editorial could not have waited until the matter was resolved internally. Any comment would then have been clearly seen as impartial. As it is it does not appear to be so.

Edited By Chris Marshall on 21/04/2013 23:29:17

Blue Max04/05/2013 11:25:25
10 forum posts

Club committe to sign of a model - joke, how does been on a club committee give you the technical jnowledge to judge a model...

Ultymate04/05/2013 11:34:53
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1693 forum posts
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Posted by Blue Max on 04/05/2013 11:25:25:

Club committe to sign of a model - joke, how does been on a club committee give you the technical jnowledge to judge a model...

What knowledge do you have of the relevant committee's technical investigative capabilities ?

Blue Max04/05/2013 11:38:04
10 forum posts

Quite alot actually and why I dont submit my models for review by people with no knowledge of the types of models that I fly. I have access to three very large areas of concrete runways with no obstructions at all and guess what, no club committee and no clubs on these sites.

Erfolg04/05/2013 11:54:06
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11313 forum posts
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I am a member of two clubs.

I fly most frequently at one where there is no specific ban on turbine aircraft, although there is a self imposed rule that no IC models can be flown. I would imagine that any attempt to fly gas turbine models would have a quick vote and a ban.

The second club, I have no idea, only just joined.

At present I am attempting to gain an A cert. This process has brought home to me the vast difference in club rules, which are probably a consequence of the differing model grouping flown at the two clubs. From the few gas turbines I have observed, it seems that they have there own characteristics/requirements for sensible operation.

My first club flies essentially two groups of models, both electric. The first is electric gliders or traditional gliders. The second is small electric models, in the general classification Park Flyers, which are about 50" max, more frequently 39" span and all up weight of about 1kg. The second group requires that the models are kept close, to be able to see. All landings are along the lines of glider flyers, as hitting a landing circle, or landing a close parallel, the emphasis on fine control and precision.

The second club, models all seem to be +50" span, many much larger, motive power mostly IC with a smattering of electric. Even the electrics are biggish to big. The shear size requires that all landings are at +50yds from the flight line. The models are flown much further away and higher. Any idea of keeping close, is seen as a combination of hogging the landing strip, and potentially to close to the flight line.

I would expect that clubs would tend to have operational rules which take account of the operational and safety issues of the model types. Thinking jets, they are pretty fast, pretty heavy, quite big and with a particular noise. All of which will impact on the necessary rules for both safe flying and community relationships.

From the above, I would expect that many clubs would have bans or specific operational requirements.

Blue Max04/05/2013 12:40:12
10 forum posts

As I own a national transport company I have two large depots and each has large areas of perfect tarmac, both are well out of the way and flying of any kind will not disrupt anyone as the nearest house is over one mile away and it is mine.

I allowed a model club to use the third, again an ex RAF site with a runway, the hassle that I had from them with back room politics was not worth it, too many people who actually had never experinced what they were judging trying to contorl others who had experince, in the end the club was told to leave the site.

Oh, one last point, all three sites have planning permission for model flying

Ultymate04/05/2013 13:04:18
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1693 forum posts
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Posted by Blue Max on 04/05/2013 12:40:12:

As I own a national transport company I have two large depots and each has large areas of perfect tarmac, both are well out of the way and flying of any kind will not disrupt anyone as the nearest house is over one mile away and it is mine.

I allowed a model club to use the third, again an ex RAF site with a runway, the hassle that I had from them with back room politics was not worth it, too many people who actually had never experinced what they were judging trying to contorl others who had experince, in the end the club was told to leave the site.

Oh, one last point, all three sites have planning permission for model flying

Some of us actually like the comaraderie of club flying, you obviously are a loner, your choice

Blue Max04/05/2013 13:06:02
10 forum posts

Must be, must ask the other 6 guys who fly on the sites, oh, and the number of others who ask to fly on the sites

Martin Harris04/05/2013 13:15:58
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8728 forum posts
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Well, there you have the difference. You own your sites and if you should lose your planning permission for any reason that you bring about by your actions then it's no business of anyone else's.

The average club operates at the whim of a landowner - or, as we're fortunate enough to do, own their own land. The membership elect a committee to oversee the day to day running of their club and it's the committee's responsibility to look after the interests of the club. A major part of this is ensuring good relations with landowners and neighbours and avoiding problems with noise or planning issues.

If the membership, either directly or via the committee (and it is their own fault if they collectively allow bad rules) decide that the committee members are to approve models and pilots then I see nothing wrong in this.

In my own club, committee members are empowered to conduct noise tests and a nominated list of members with good experience of building and operating models conduct basic airframe checks on all models before they are operated from the site. There are no exceptions - from the Chairman or Area Chief Examiner to recently joined member, we all, to the best of my knowledge, accept the validity of these checks and happily submit our models to examination.

Edited By Martin Harris on 04/05/2013 13:19:56

Pete B - Moderator04/05/2013 13:25:50
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Moderator
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Just a reminder to keep this constructive,guys, ta....wink 2

Pete

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