By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by CML

Anyone for a Tiffie?

Building TN's Typhoon

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  

Tony Bennett27/08/2013 22:25:23
5082 forum posts
129 photos


be finished soon then BEB.?

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator28/08/2013 00:04:49
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Yeap spot on Tony! - I should have it ready for the Nats!

OK, time for the next episode in "the Tiffie story"! We'd reached 1943 and the Typhoon was starting to establish itself as a very sucessful fighter bomber. At this point the Tiffie was introduced to what was to prove its perfect partner - the RP3, the 3" Rocket Projectile.

The RP3 carried a 60lb warhead which was usually entirely made-up of HE but could be a mixture of explosive and concrete if more penetration power was required. The Tiffie carried four of these under each wing. With these, and the four 20mm Hispano cannon, it was claimed that each Typhoon carried a punch equivalent in destructive power to the broadside from a light cruiser! A very formidable weapon indeed.

With the RP3 the Typhoon acquired a new role - a ground attack fighter - a task at which it was to prove singularly sucessful, probably being the most sucessful ground attack aircraft of the second world war.

Like many instances in history, the discovery of the Tiffie's potential when operated in partnership with the RP3 could not have come at a better time - with D-day in the early stages of planning. For the invasion of Europe to be sucessful the Allies would of course require complete air supremacy over the beaches and for some distance inland and this would need to be further supplemented by the ability, via air attack, to deal with and neutralise opposition, particularly dug-in and/or armoured opposition. The rocket equiped Typhoon offered the perfect tool for the job.

In order to prepare for D-day and play the required role the RAF's fighter capability was radically restructured in 1943. Fighter Command was abolished and replaced with two bodies: Air Defence of Great Britian (ADGB) and the 2nd Tatical Airforce (2nd TAF). The former would continue with the traditional role of the RAF's fighters ie defending UK airspace from enemy intrusion. While the 2nd TAF would directly support the invasion of Europe. All Typhoon squadrons were eventually transfered to 2nd TAF.

As a side point - as you can imagine - the dissapearance of Fighter Command was extremely unpopular, exspecially in the light of their achievements during the Battle of Britian, and the decision was later reversed.

The Typhoon Squadrons that were transfered to 2nd TAF were:

137, 164, 168, 174, 175, 181, 182, 183, 184, 193, 195, 197, 198, 245, 247, 257, 263, 266, 438, 439, 440 & 609.

For these squadrons operations were now increasingly interspered with training for "the big day"!


Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator29/08/2013 22:51:18
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

OK busy busy! Its time to attach the tailplane,...always a stressful job. Its got to be level, its got to square and it has to have the correct incidence. We established early on that the tailplane was at zero incidence relative to the fuselage datum line - so this gives us a clue as to how we might do this.

First a cutout in the rear sheeting is needed to fit in the front of the tailplane, I did this by tracing from the plan, then using the pin-prick method,...

typhoon 54.jpg

Then join the dots with the scalpel,...

typhoon 55.jpg

The fuselage datum line passes through the centre of the engine mount. So I set the fuselage down on the building board and set the calipers to span from the board surface to the centre,....

typhoon 56.jpg

The scrap wood at the front is to fix the bottom of the firewall former as this will form one of our datum points when fitting the tailplane. Now I measured (from the plan) where the fuselage datum line crossed the fin post and marked this point. Finally I jacked the fuselage up until that point was at the same height at the firewall centre as set by the calipers,...

typhoon 57.jpg

I had to pose the photo and take it - so this is just a demo. For the real measurement I was a bit more particular about positioning the calipers!

So now I locked in position the "jack" - which was my posh new permagrit tool!...

typhoon 58.jpg

OK, so we now have the fuselage steady in position so that its datum line is parallel to the surface of the building board. Now we need some datum points on the tailplane. To do this I inserted some map pins with coloured heads into the edges of the tailplane. One at each end and one 12cm along on each leading edge,...

typhoon 59.jpg

And one in the middle of the trialing edge,...

typhoon 60.jpg

So, that's three pins on each tailplane; fore and aft and end. Now, if we get the fore & aft of these at the same height off the building board on both left and right tailplanes (as compared with the calipers) we know the incidence is zero. Similarly if we get the end pins on either side the same height as each other we know the tailplane is level. All that takes a lot of fiddling to achieve!

But we still don't know if its square to the fuselage centreline! To do this I inserted one more of my coloured map pins in the nose,...

typhoon 61.jpg

Now I can use a piece of string to check that each tailplane tip pin is the same distance from this nose pin.

So, its on with the slow setting epoxy and start working our way round the pins with the calipers and the string, slowly tightening up the clamps as we go - homing in on everything being just how we want it. Yes, it takes ages!

Once that was settled I added some curved wedges below the elevator to increase the glue surface area and strengthen things up,...

typhoon 62.jpg

So, that's it. Phew! Here she is with the tailplane firmly in place, square, level and at zero-incidence,...

typhoon 63.jpg

As I have now reinstated the top spine at the back that I razor-sawed out we can dry fit the fin to see how it all looks,...

typhoon 64.jpg

Pretty cool - pleased with that. Time for a glass of wine methinks!


Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 29/08/2013 23:58:59

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 30/08/2013 00:06:45

Tony Bennett29/08/2013 23:01:35
5082 forum posts
129 photos

have two after all that.

thats one of the worst bits done now though. phew.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator31/08/2013 22:18:07
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

I've had a couple of busy days - work and family - so not a lot of progress to show tonight.

What progress I have made has been on the nose end, adding the balsa blocks which will be carved and sanded to form the lower radiator chin,...

typhoon 67.jpg

And starting the delicate task of cuting back the sides to form the outer part of the wing seat. This will also, alongside the blocks above, form the front pocket for the centre leading edge of the wing,...

typhoon 66.jpg

One big step today, I have the retracts! A pair of E-Flite 60-120 Mains with 85 degree retraction angle,...

typhoon 68.jpg

A bit blurred - sorry! They look solid enough. So I'm ready to start on the wing centre section as soon as the fuselage reaches it's conclusion.


Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator01/09/2013 21:21:02
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Lots of bity stuff today.

I've glued the fin in and now I'm just tudying up the sheeting around the tail, reinstating the bit I cut out etc. So lots of fiddly work - but not a lot to show for it!

I've also made a start on shaping the nose - well I've sanded one direction at the rear of the rad intake - so just a token start really and still pleny to do there!

I'll try to post some picccies tomorrow.


Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator01/09/2013 21:52:23
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Here's the next bit in the Tiffie Story,....

As 1943 worn on and more squadrons were flying Typhoons into a battle another problem for the poor Tiffie became pressing - it started to be the victim of "friendly fire" incidents to an unacceptable degree. To tell the truth this had long been a problem for the Typhoon - ever since it first appeared in operational service. But with the arrival of the Americans into the conflict the whole thing was getting seriously out of hand.

The problem was that from certain angles the Tiffie had more than a passing resemblance to the FW190! So much so that both Allied aircraft and ground defences would "open up" on it. Significant numbers of Typhoons were lost to these "mistaken identity" incidents. Something had to be done - and quickly!

In the end the only solution was to compromise the Typhoon's camouflage by adding markings. So black and white stripes where painted on to the undersurface of the wings. Note this was more than 12 months before D-day! These markings, although along the same lines, were in fact slightly different from the later D-day markings in that the stripe width was slightly different and they were only applied to the under wing surface - not the upper or the rear fuselage.

While this scheme did make matters rather better, the curse of "friendly fire" never quite left the Typhoon! It is interesting to note that a catalogue of reasons for losses of Typhoons between 1942 and 1945 lists "flak damage" as by far the greatest cause, there is then a frighteningly small gap between "shot down by enemy aircraft" and "shot down by friendly fire"!


Steve Hargreaves - Moderator02/09/2013 20:30:46
6765 forum posts
199 photos

During the Normandy campaign the German troops used to say "If you can see green planes in the sky they are British....if you can see silver planes in the sky they are American & if you can see no planes in the sky they are German"

On the other hand when planes appeared above them the Americans used to say "Take cover boys...they may be ours....!!"

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator02/09/2013 21:07:39
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Ah, a variant on the old joke -

When the British flew over the Germans took cover,

When the Germans flew over the British took cover,

When the Americans flew over,.....everyone took cover!


Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator02/09/2013 22:36:58
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

OK I promised some photo's tonight so, here goes.

Here's some general views of the fuselage as it is at present. Side view,...

typhoon 70.jpg

t'other side,...

typhoon 71.jpg

From the rear,...

typhoon 72.jpg

As you can see its pretty well all sheeted now, except for one little bit under the tail,...

typhoon 73.jpg

I will leave this bit until I've figured out how I am going to fix the tailwheel.

The side sheeting has been shaped to form the outer wing seat on each side. To get a outline guide for the shape I traced the leading edge of rib W2 and stuck it with some sellotape to W2 itself.

typhoon 69.jpg

I could then draw round this inside the fuselage to give me feel for the shape. I've left about 2 or 3mm of "flesh" on the outline of the wingseat in the balsa (remember the "real seat" is the ply former inside) so I can "fettle" the fit once the complete wing is built and skinned. ...

typhoon 74.jpg

The rear of the upper fusleage, which you will remember I butchered to make fitting the tailplane accurately an easier task, has been reinstated; partially in sheet and a part as shaped block - still to be shaped!...

typhoon 75.jpg

typhoon 76.jpg

As you can see the whole fuselage wants a good sanding down now, but before that we have to fit the cowl which is our guide to shaping the front end, so that's the next job.


Tony Bennett02/09/2013 22:55:17
5082 forum posts
129 photos

nicely done and quick as well.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator02/09/2013 23:10:36
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

I meant to mention - I have made a small "boo-boo" - in that I've sheeted up the rear but haven't inserted the elevator torque rod first! I lieterally had just applied the glue for the last bit of rear side sheeting when I suddenly realised. There was a moments hesitation, I wipe off the glue and go and make a torque rod? I decided not. I'll be able to get it in with a hole a little oversize that I can patch up - honest,...well probably,...maybe,...mmmm?

Nah, it'll be fine!

Trust me, I'm an engineer! smile d


Tony Bennett02/09/2013 23:16:43
5082 forum posts
129 photos

glad its not just me that does things like that.

my favorite is cutting holes in the ribs for servo wires (or not)

Edited By Tony Bennett on 02/09/2013 23:17:06

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator03/09/2013 14:59:31
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Yeap - I've done that one with the servo wire holes before now as well Tony - and aren't they a "challenge" to put in retrospectively!!

Now this forum is a terrible place that gives birth to truely wicked ideas! devil Earlier today I was reading Del Wheatley's thread on the MrRCSound system he's bought - see here for details.

Now I didn't have anything specifc in mind - just in the spirit of "keeping up to date" you understand - I googled the system and started reading. Turns out the system is ideal for models in the 50-63" wingspan range - mmm, the Tiffie is 62" - and I read that the implication is that while you can use a grill of any size to let the sound out a hole about 1.5"x1.5" is sort of optium. Very interesting in a general knowledge sort of way,.....

Then I looked at a picture,...


That speaker is 2" diameter apparently. Then my mind wandered into images of the Typhoon I have seen. This image below is actually a model of the Tempest, but the principle is the same,....

tempest front.jpg

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? At 6oz weight in the nose its got to better than lead.....


Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 03/09/2013 15:52:23

Tony Bennett03/09/2013 15:24:36
5082 forum posts
129 photos

oh yes definately.

i keep thinking about one for my sea fury.

do it, go on do it now. hehehehehe

Colin Leighfield03/09/2013 16:51:36
6007 forum posts
2505 photos

BEB. That looks like a great idea, but - - - -. I've assumed that for maximum effect the sound needs to be directed down. I'm assuming that the way you envisage this, the speaker is projecting the sound forwards into the prop-wash. Is that going to work? Also with the close proximity of the speaker to the high velocity spiralling air-flow behind the prop, will there be an adverse effect from that? I don't know anything about this subject, I'm just guessing. Perhaps some very interesting noises will be produced, best heard when the Tiffie is in a vertical dive! Probably you should do it anyway, just to find out. I'm fascinated.

Danny Fenton03/09/2013 19:03:19
9753 forum posts
4556 photos

Hi BEB does that mean this is going to be electric?

This is how John Ranson layed out the twin 4" Visaton speakers on his 82" Tempest



Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator03/09/2013 23:18:41
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Interesting Danny - one speaker were I'm thinking of and one downward. Mmmm?

You're right of course Colin - but if it will all fit when I measure everything up I don't think I'm going to be able to resist trying it!!

Well, onto the cowl. First we trim the excess off the cowl then fix the wooden former inside,...

typhoon 77.jpg

This turned out to be a job for CA - I was planning to use epoxy but the fit is very snug indeed so the best approach I thought was to fit the former then dribble some thin CA in to wick its way into the gap.

Now sorting this cowl out is going to involve a fair bit of cutting/sanding of the ABS. In fact this whole section of the build involves a lot of sanding. Neither balsa, nor ABS, dust is particularly good for your lungs. Add in the fact that using the sanding drum on the Dremmel has a number of potential hazards - the drum has been known to fly off of the mandrel, there will be hot chips of plastic flying around etc. etc.

So I thought it might be of interest to see what safety equipment that should be using for this type of activity. Basically you need a good respirator, the one I use shown below is for dust particulates and paint spray and costs about £25 from B&Q - if you begruge paying that just remember, you can't buy another pair of lungs at any price! Also needed are some safety glasses - cheap as chips and priceless if events end up meaning you need them,....

typhoon 78.jpg

So we mark out the cutouts then, having donned the safety gear, the cut out are roughed out with a drill bit,...

typhoon 79.jpg

And with a circular file bit in the Dremmel we play "dot to dot",...

typhoon 80.jpg

Switch the Dremmel over to a sanding drum and carefully work around the cutout,...

typhoon 81.jpg

Finally turn the cowl over and again using the sanding drum in the Dremmel sand the back of the cowl flush with the former,...

typhoon 82.jpg

I was planning to line the cowl with glass fibre and resin, but its totally unnecessary. The ABS is quite thick and with the former in place the whole cowl is very solid indeed.

So, next up is fixing this in place and then profile sanding the front of the fuselage to blend into it.


Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 04/09/2013 08:37:54

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator06/09/2013 21:34:15
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

The last few days have been busy in work, a few family committments and when I have had a bit of spare time I've been flying! So not a lot done - but steady progress.

Having drilled four holes in the former inside the cowl it was offered up to the front of the fuselage and taped in position,...

typhoon 83.jpg

The black arrows in the photo show two of the holes drilled in the former. With the cowl taped in position the location of these holes is marked onto the firewall. On the plan TN suggests using screws through these holes into the firewall. But I envisage having to remove the cowl a bit more than Tony did, so I will use caphead bolts into tee-nuts - that way there is no danger of wearing out the holes.

The red arrows indicate some of the material that will have to be removed from the front of the fuselage - quite a lot all round the cowl!

The photo below shows the cowl now fixed in place with the bolts, one of the bolts, along with its washer, being just visible through the engine opening....

typhoon 84.jpg

Finally, here is where I am up to. The hard work of shaping the fuselage to the cowl and sanding it down is underway - and will be for a while! The strip of masking tape is to protect the cowl whilst I am sanding...

typhoon 85.jpg


Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 06/09/2013 21:36:21

Lindsay Todd06/09/2013 22:00:22
1758 forum posts
1825 photos

Looking very nice Beb, have not read all the blog but I am guessing you mounted the cowl relevant to the engine position, shame to do all that work and find the spinner sits 3mm too high or low, not that I have ever done this you understand, he says lying through his teeth. Linds

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Support Our Partners
Sussex Model Centre
electricwingman 2017
Advertise With Us
Latest "For Sale" Ads
NEW POLL - has the pandemic altered your event safety perceptions?
Q: Has the covid pandemic deterred you from attending shows and events in 2021?

 No, I'll be attending just as many as I usually do
 No, but I'll choose my event with greater care
 Yes, I'll attend fewer events going forward
 Yes, I wont attend any where previously I have

Latest Reviews
Digital Back Issues

RCM&E Digital Back Issues

Contact us

Contact us

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of RCM&E? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!

Find RCM&E!