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Hand painting detail

Problems with bleeding

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Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services07/10/2013 21:31:24
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I'm currently finishing off my Stampe with Black over White detail, but I am having problems with bleeding of the Black onto the White base colour.

I am masking using Tamiya tape, going over the edges of the tape with the base colour and when dry hand painting the Black over the top. But every time I left the tape it has bled under.

Any suggestions or am I missing a trick?

Devcon107/10/2013 21:53:43
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Maybe leave the base coat a little longer to dry or try airbrushing or try a different paint.

Is it the base coat or the black which is bleeding?

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services07/10/2013 22:00:16
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The Black SBTG, airbrushing is out of the question for the time being, brushing is the way its got to be, the base was sprayed in the shed, but now its moved into the house workshop lol.

The thing is I am doing nothing different now as I did on the first wing and that came out perfect, I just don't understand it.

Codename-John07/10/2013 23:00:38
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mask off, then paint a thin coat of base on the edges of the masking tape, this seals the masking tape with the same colour as the base, and then the black cant creep at all

just read your op properly where youve already done this

Edited By Codename-John on 07/10/2013 23:13:21

Danny Fenton07/10/2013 23:09:56
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Hi Dylan thats a bit disturbing mate, the Tamiya tape is usually brilliant, is the paint mix any thinner than when you did the wings? and is the tape from the same roll?

I always airbrush but if you say that is a no-no then a brush it is, should dtill work as you have said crook

Ernie08/10/2013 08:39:00
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Hi Dylan,

Danny is absolutely right. Tamiya tape is just about the best. Are you pressing it down well enough? and spraying from an angle that is away from the tape, so that your not blowing the colour under. A first coat of the base coat is a good idea. and let the paint dry really well before you peel the tape off. Some say to peel it off as soon as the paint is on, but I've never tried that

ernie

GrahamC08/10/2013 08:51:35
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I think that bleeding is more likely when you are hand painting simply due to the quantity of liquid paint on the surface. In practice you always will put some liquid down with the brush which will wick into any gaps. Careful spraying results in very low quantities of liquid being present at any one time, and so wicking is almost insignificant.

In the past when hand painting I've found that at the end of the day the easiest way is to do it very carefully with the right brush and no masking.

That said, I will certainly try codename John's advice. Some very cunning lateral thinking there!

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator08/10/2013 11:13:18
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Hi Dylan,

I had this problem a few years ago on a Magnatilla I was hand painting. Big white squares with black "Iron crosses". Hand painting with a brush I simply could not stop the bleeding - whatever I did. So, I came up with a different way of doing it that worked well in the end!

I drew the cross outline on the white with a good qualty black pen - TBH I think I used a fine "rollerball" type pen. To draw it accurately I made a stencil in card with the cross shape as a cut-out and simply taped that to the surface then drew with the pen against the edge of the stencil. Once the outline of the cross was drawn I removed the stencil leaving the outline of the cross in black ink on the white panel.

I then simply painted the inside of the cross with a brush and a steady hand - no masking tape. Just painting upto the line carefully - trying to go "onto the line" with the brush - but stopping short of its outer edge. As the line was very fine it was quite tricky - but patience and care pulled it off.

I was pleased with the final result. If you look through a magnifying glass you can just make out the very thin remains of the black ink profile in places - but you'd never see it with the naked eye. Well I wouldn't! It is just providing the sharp edge.

Just for the record the paint was acryllic, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work with other types.

BEB

Down Under08/10/2013 12:56:29
67 forum posts

Hi Dylan

For what its worth, I paint rc cars occasionally and have found the best and cheapest to use is pin striping, like you would use on the side of a full size car. Its cheap, comes in 10m rolls and does a perfect job.

Pin striping (here in OZ anyway) is made out of vinyl / plastic, so doesn't absorb paint. Therefore it doesn't bleed either. It also leaves a perfectly sharp edge, no matter how thick the paint applied. The backing adhesive also leaves no residue when removed either.

Try it, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Down Under

andy watson08/10/2013 13:10:27
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The OP seems to have done everything most of us do, and is still struggling.

I would advise trying a product called maskol. It's a liquid masking agent and so shouldn't allow any bleeding.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator08/10/2013 13:19:06
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Hi Andy,

I have used maskol and its very good - but I haven't tried it on fabric like Solartex. Does it work and come off cleanly in that case? I'm not saying it doesn't - it just that anywhere I've used it has been on a solid surface.

BEB

andy watson08/10/2013 14:14:13
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1942 forum posts
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I have a bottle in the workshop that I have never tried either!

I would imagine (and the reason I bought it) that it would be much better on a textured covering like solartex than a tape which will always struggle to get into the dimples of the fabric and prevent bleeding. The latex like structure once its dried should come off cleanly- but as I said above- I haven't actually used it

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services08/10/2013 17:25:21
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Thanks for all the replies guys some very useful info there.

The Tamiya tape is a different roll to the first wing I did, but I have tried 2 different rolls without any success.

To reiterate what I have done, sprayed a base colour all over which is White. That has been done for several weeks. I have then masked up and gone over the tape with my finger until I could see no visible gaps and it appeared smooth and flat. I have then gone over the edges with the same base colour paint albeit brushed this time to seal the tape. I have then painted 2 coats of thinned down Black with a brush NOT sprayed, the brushing was near enough dry brushing hardly any paint at all went down in any one brush stroke, all the time brushing away from the tape not into it. Left to dry for several hours only to peel back the tape to find bleeding everywhere.

Now yes I have a problem in stopping the bleeding, but my priority is now to get rid of the mess as best as possible without it showing up too much, so any ideas would be very useful at this point as I want her ready for a static scale comp very shortly (2 weeks).

One idea I have was to cut thin strips of the covering material and iron it on down the bad edges, but this is going to be an obvious fix and not look too pretty but it will give me clean edges. The other problem with this is the material is White but not sprayed with the base White so shades are slightly off.

The other idea is a Sharpy pen and go over the edges bringing them out but this creates the problem of losing my sharp pointy bits in my design.

Like I said already, thanks guys it really is appreciated lets just hope between us we can get this one fixed with recovering! lol

andy watson08/10/2013 20:56:39
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Dylan,

Here's my problem with what you are describing- I can't see any way the paint can be bleeding under the tape!!

Tamiya tape is pretty good stuff- especially on a smooth surface. I could understand more if you were working on solartex or another fabric textured covering, but I would guess not. Then you have sealed the tape with white (the base colour), again excellent practise. Finally if you are dry brushing then I can't see there is enough paint to wick under the tape anyway (which is what happens when the paint bleeds through)- especially if you are brushing away from the tape. If anything I would have expected to see a small gap between the tape and paint.

But............maybe..... and it's probably a long shot.........

you say you have thinned the black coat. If it has been thinned really thin could it manage to get through? Especially along panel lines etc? I am just thinking that heavily thinned black paint is sometimes used as a wash/weathering technique which can get into every nook and cranny of a model?

My only suggestion is try painting the black on unthinned to maintain its thickness and so reduce its likelihood to be pulled along by capillary action..

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services08/10/2013 22:03:47
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Actually Andy it is Oratex I am painting not smooth stuff. But I am thinking along the lines you are that the Black may have been thinned out too much, but tee againI am mixing 10ml paint to 5ml thinners so should be ok, the reason for thinning is because in its undiluted form the Black is leaving heavy brush marks and is very difficult to get a thin coat on especially when trying to dry brush.

I'm stumped, but like I say, my priority now is to fix what has been done. The last thing I want to do is recover, thats 15m of covering! and Oratex is £140 per 10meters.crook

andy watson08/10/2013 22:14:55
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I would give maskol a go then- it's about the best idea I can come up with

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services09/10/2013 18:52:09
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1704 forum posts
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Cheers Andy, just about to order some, shame it doesn't make existing paint disappear lol

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services10/10/2013 20:54:32
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Had a fairly succesful night in fixing the mess I ended up with, still a bit rough around the edges but better than it was

Before -

1379784_10151692637811274_784736019_n.jpg

and After -

996003_10151692637691274_1417192098_n.jpg

Ok its the opposite side but you get the idea

Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services12/10/2013 17:14:27
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Finally getting somewhere, I can only think it was a duff couple of rolls of tape as I have had more rolls delivered and everything has been as it should be

1382078_10151695936461274_438828593_n.jpg

Tony Bennett12/10/2013 17:47:14
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5075 forum posts
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that is very nice.

me want one now.

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