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Bistormer 60" (A Barnstormer with more ribs)

Barnstormer with more ribs

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Danny Fenton02/02/2014 00:02:16
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Just a quick post to show something I tried to make fitting the control horn a little easier.

I clamped a small metal engineers square to the aileron leading edge, having first marked where the slot would need to be. Then I slid the shank of a small router bit in my Dremel along the steel square. This kept the cut true-ish

Worked better than free hand crook

bs 84.jpg

Filled the gap with epoxy and slid the horn into place thumbs up

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 02/02/2014 00:04:18

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator02/02/2014 00:13:10
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15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Neat idea Danny. That task is always a fiddly one and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have managed to split one the flanks away accidently!

BEB

Nigel Day02/02/2014 08:29:35
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1158 forum posts
213 photos

Invaluable tips and ideas Danny, thanks again.

Danny Fenton11/02/2014 15:12:08
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Well have been working away so not much done I am afraid.

However back now so onto the Fus. Now this is going to deviate from the plan a fair bit, I think the Barnstormer guys have covered the fus fairly well so I am going to "play" with it.

First of all I am going to chat about the templates that came with the Bistormer. These are the major items that you will need to cut out. They are printed on sticky backed paper, however a word of caution for those of you that go down this route......

bs 85.jpg

You can see from this picture the red lines are where the lines "SHOULD" be, you can see it is a little out.

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The template would not fit on a std sheet of wood, however the more accurate lines do.

Those that have been following this blog will have seen how the dihedral braces caught me out on the wings. They were a degree or two out.....

bs 93.jpg

This is bulkhead F4 and sets the rear cabane angle and height. The red paper template is mine made striaght from the plan. The black lined one underneath is the template. As you can see it is out by a fair bit.

I am not trying to knock Eddie and Judy, far from it, I love what they have done with DB Sport and Scale, and have a long list of their kits on my bucket list! But I think the template has perhaps been created from the templates used in the old kit version, and they were a little worn. So a word to the wise, use the templates as a guide, fettle them to fit the plan wink 2

bs 87.jpg

The main fuselage sides are from 3/16 and so I made two of these. They are unfortunately slightly bigger than half a 36" sheet, so the wastage is high. But if you strip the bits, some can be reclaimed.

A long strip of 3/16 runs along the top of the fus side, all the way to the tail, this was stripped and attached.

While waiting for this to dry, I looked at F4

bs 88.jpg

First the outline was cut from 3mm lite ply (Birch ply on the DB version)

The centre was found and a small hole made near the edge.

bs 89.jpg

The jewellers saw was whizzed around the middle after feeding the blade through the hole.

bs 90.jpg

It only took a minute to cut the centre away.

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Another couple of mins to clean the edges and we have F4

bs 92.jpg

And this is where it will go teeth 2

All of this I am sure is old hat to most of you but just in case I have shown it. I will do the other bulkheads etc with less detail so that I can get a wriggle on wink 2

Cheers

Danny

jolliffee11/02/2014 15:19:13
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123 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks Danny - it isn't wasted I need this sort of help!

Oh! I see you pilot looks keen to be in the airwink

Nigel Day11/02/2014 15:25:04
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1158 forum posts
213 photos

Not wasted at all Danny.

It looks from your description that the formers are all a little larger than they need to be with the templates.

If this is the case (and I'll be checking my 63" version plans and bits shortly) then at least it's only a bit more sanding that's necessary for it to fit properly - assuming they're already cut.

Danny Fenton11/02/2014 15:26:17
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Thanks Jollifee, glad it helps, if you need to ask something then please don't hesitate this is what the mass build is about. Yes the pilot looks keen. One of the things that bugs me about this model is the rear cabanes are IN the cockpit! they wouldn't be, so this may be an area that I "PLAY" with wink 2 the cockpit may be moving back.....

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton11/02/2014 15:28:50
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Hi Nigel, yes for the most part, but if you try and cut a part out from the template and its bigger than will fit on a sheet of balsa, what are you going to do? I hope you wouldn't make it in two parts to only find you have to sand all the extra off again.

As you say its not really a big issue, but it might be enough to put somebody off. TBH you may as well trace the bulkheads off the plan and use the tracings wink 2

Cheers

Danny

Nigel Day11/02/2014 17:49:58
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1158 forum posts
213 photos

Good point Danny. I'll check ALL of the bits I've already cut out (from single sheets fortunately) to make sure.

Danny Fenton12/02/2014 10:15:21
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Finished framing up the stbd side, the area around the tailplane seat is a little long winded, not sure why it is done this way. But I have followed the method anyway. The result is 1/16 sheeting on the outside flush with the longerons.

bs 94.jpg

bs 95.jpg

The bulkheads are just dry fitted at this time. I will build the port side on top of the starboard to keep them the same. A layer of the plan protector between the two will stop them sticking together.

Remember anything that makes the fus sides handed will have to be added AFTER they are seperated, ie that 1/16 sheeting around the tailplane seat wink 2

Cheers

Danny

kc12/02/2014 11:33:13
6032 forum posts
168 photos
In my usual role as Devil's Advocate I will ask three daft questions which may help others....
1. I wonder if the fuselage sides fit on one sheet if one is inverted or reversed? Or perhaps the offcut makes some different parts? Without the plan i cannot check this but my guess is Boddo would have minimised wastage when he manufactured kits.
2. Why are the pins in pairs and 'dovetailed' on the fus side photos?
3. Do you really cut upwards with your jewellers saw as it seems in the photo? I always cut downwards or preferably in a horizontal plane i.e. using gravity rather than fighting it..

Edited By kc on 12/02/2014 11:35:17

Danny Fenton12/02/2014 12:02:54
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Hi KC the same thing happened with the leading edge sheeting, I could have wasted loads of wood, but as we all do, when I needed something I went to the wastage pile and managed to use pretty much all of it, either stripped for cappings or centre sheeting. The same is probably going to be true for the fus bits, which I did try in every which way around, to no avail. I wonder if this model was originally a smaller size, then it would have fitted better.

As for the jewellers saw, it cuts perfectly with a very light touch in any direction. However that picture is staged, I am right handed, and the shutter release on a Nikon is on the right, so I had to just hold the saw with my left hand to put it in shot wink 2

The pins, I was going to mention those. I don't like to push pins through load bearing longerons, spars etc so that why you will often see me go either side. Sometimes a piece of wood will straddle the longeron with a pin either side. Depends which side of the bed I got up in the morning wink 2 As for the pins being dovetailed this I find is the best way for the pins to hold the balsa down, the wood is nice and soft and relying on friction alone I fend is not enough. So if you angle the pins, they excert a sideways load, another pin nearby excerts an equal but opposite sideways load so the item stays put thumbs up

No questions are daft, and as I say I am no expert, this is just how I do it.

Now just to show how I can screw up to. In fact I do it all the time but just don't let on embarrassed

The second fus side, must have looked like scrap and I sawed a bit off the end, by the wing trailing edge, I must have needed a bit for something!!!

I have added a section to make it good, but in the end the amount I "lopped" off would have meant both sides WOULD have come out of one sheet angry 2

bs 96.jpg

Cheers

Danny

Handyman12/02/2014 12:09:51
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207 forum posts
1 photos

Hi Danny, excellent work as usual. I have been following your progress on various models over the years, trying to emulate some of your practices. You are a very adaptable modeller and I think you are possibly a bit like me, in that I often see an alternative use for something that normally has nothing at all to do with aeromodelling.

Can I be very cheeky now and ask you where you obtained those pins from. Much better that the straight pins that I still tend to use.

Looking forward to reading about the first flights.

Tony B.

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 12/02/2014 12:17:32

Danny Fenton12/02/2014 12:26:28
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Thanks Tony, and glad you get something from the blogs. I enjoy doing them but they do soak up a lot of time.

I was sure that the pins were from Als Hobbies, however I can no longer find them. A quick google has shown that the Balsa Cabin sells them. Balsa Cabin is also where I get the plan protector wink 2

Cheers

Danny

Handyman12/02/2014 13:08:29
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207 forum posts
1 photos

Today at 12:45 PM
Hi Danny, that's great news. I will get on and purchase some from the Balsa Cabin. I will leave you in peace now. I am going to brave the rain and get down to my shed and do a bit more to a model I am putting together. Cannot do much flying, our field is absolutely water-logged, so plenty of Phoenix sim flying at the moment.
Tony B.
Danny Fenton12/02/2014 16:54:43
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

A bit of head scratching and we are shortening the nose by an inch teeth 2 see i told you I might have a "play"

bs 97.jpg

There is room for a 5S A123 pack and I have drawn in the motor I am using. I have a nice chunky bulkhead to drop in as well. The top cowling will have to change slightly but the look I am going for is upright Gipsy engined

What do you reckon?

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton12/02/2014 17:48:42
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Started gluing the bulkheads in, F3, F4 and F5 are all perpendicular so they can go in. The new F2 is at a slight angle so will have to wait until the fus is pulled together at the front. The paxolin tray and heavy engine mounts do a great deal to strengthen the front end, so simply adding a bulkhead for the motor is not good enough in my book. So I will add a few bits, including a box for the battery to slide along.

bs 98.jpg

bs 99.jpg

bs 100.jpg

Cheers

Danny

Dave Miller12/02/2014 19:17:55
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341 forum posts
27 photos

I agree about the accuracy of the paper templates, I stopped using mine and resorted to measuring the plan to redraw them.

This design does have a long nose so shortening it a bit may help avoid tail weight; the very thought of which makes me feel quite ill. disgust

kc12/02/2014 19:33:46
6032 forum posts
168 photos
Would it be worth waiting to see how the CG is going before shortening the nose?

Dave could be right but it would make me ill to put 3 or 4 times as much lead in the front! It's easier to move a battery back than put lead up the front.....

Earlier Danny commented on the sheet infill at the tailend being a bit complex. I noticed that Boddo did this infill on many designs -Richtofen, Tiger Moth etc. Could be desirable for a sturdy model and maybe the long nose is to counteract this tail construction? As its not scale I wouldnt expect he made the nose long without reason.
Danny Fenton12/02/2014 20:05:21
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9106 forum posts
3945 photos

Hi Dave, it is obviously something DB likes. Have I assembled the rear the way you did?
Hi KC in my experience you can lose a fair chunk off the nose of an ic model, the leccy motor has its mass further forward than an ic, and the cells in this case are A123 which are slightly heavier than lipo. I took two inches off the nose of a pupeteer without needing lead. It is a bit of a guess at the end of the day, we will have to see if my guestimate is correct or not
Cheers
Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 12/02/2014 20:23:39

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