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Glenns models cap 232

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Rich too22/09/2019 14:52:37
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That is a lot of lead, how much weight? Have you balanced it accurately? The last time I added that much lead it made the model very nose heavy (a 30cc Yak), and I now use a different method to balance models more accurately.

cymaz22/09/2019 17:18:01
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The manual starts the cg at 6mm in front of the centre of the wing tube, I think on a previous post that equates to 140mm from the LE at the wing root. When I measured it there the tail slammed onto the workbench. It’s now 121mm  so 19mm ahead. The nose drops only when you push the nose gently. It is level at this measurement. 

 

I  watched a maiden flight of a similar sized Extra a few weeks ago at my local club at Davidstow.The cg was per manual. It was severely tail heavy. The pilot is a super skilled man......anyone else it would have smashed to bits. 

The plane  measurements were all put in an online spreadsheet. It calculated 125mm. I’ve used this on several airframes and it’s pretty good. Our man at Davidstow used the spreadsheet and it few much safer.

 

Tell us the methods you use....I can double check against mine. That will be an interesting comparison. The Cap will not fly until everything has been checked over again.....including the cg!

Edited By cymaz on 22/09/2019 17:27:43

Edited By cymaz on 22/09/2019 17:29:51

Rich too22/09/2019 18:36:38
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it might be fine, just sounds odd for a model like that. I used to use the dreaded finger method, which was ok for small models but no good for larger models. I hang models from a tree now! I use string attached at the cg point. Sometimes with a false rib if it is feasible. whatever way that it is possible to hang from the cg point. I can also measure the weight at the same time yes

I tried one of the balance gizmos (Great Planes) I think but never got reliable results.

have you checked with Glen?

Edited By Rich too on 22/09/2019 18:38:06

cymaz22/09/2019 19:42:43
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I’ve been on Glens web site. I will try the wing rib method. Can easily cut one after tracing around the wingyes

bert baker22/09/2019 22:38:27
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The all up weight of mine is 10.4 kg

I haven’t been able to measure the c-g with wings on

will try this week to sort it out

You do appear to have plenty lead up front

However with my wings off mine balances level at the front of the wing tube Sleve in the Fuz

cymaz22/09/2019 22:44:25
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I think mine will be heavier. The two elevator servos make a big difference. If they weren’t there then the lead would probably vanish.

I will try and rig something up make the wing rib balance

I’ve added a couple of 4mm wing bolts near the wing tube. With just the rear pair, and moving it laterally,I felt the wings just moved too much off the side of the fuselage. Also trimmed 2mm off the wing tube....it was too long!

Edited By cymaz on 22/09/2019 22:47:03

bert baker23/09/2019 01:24:35
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85de61e4-dbbe-49cd-b2c4-8aa5e6cd1fb1.jpegMine also sports front and rear wing bolts,

I only ever use the front two,, and use captive nuts on the wrong way round

As of yet never had one come loose

John Stainforth23/09/2019 03:27:32
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38 photos

Wow! Are you saying that each wing of an aerobatic model weighing over 22 lbs is held on with a single bolt into a captive nut the wrong way round? I think you have been a bit lucky and are pushing your luck. I'm not sure this would pass a safety inspection in most clubs.

Ron Gray23/09/2019 07:16:38
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363 photos

There is very little sideways force on the wings, in fact I once flew one of my 50cc aerobatic ‘planes for a whole day and only when packing up realised that I hadn’t put the holding bolts in!

bert baker23/09/2019 12:42:12
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Wing bolts, it has been designed and well proven that one is enough...as nylon bolts are used you do need to follow the recommendation of using a t nut on the wrong way round...it acts as a nyloc nut, steel to steel will rattle loose

 

Cymaz I have suspended mine this morning...

It was a bit awkward to string it up,,

i formed a loop of rope with one side of fuz with rope in front of wing tube and on the other side it went to the rear lifted it up and it balanced level

Cymaz I have done a video pm me a email and I can send it to you

Edited By bert baker on 23/09/2019 13:08:39

John Stainforth23/09/2019 18:25:56
310 forum posts
38 photos

Bert,

I was not querying the single bolt so much as the T nut mounted the wrong way round. Whose recommendation?

Any outward force (which is what the wing bolt is intended to counter) will be pulling straight out on the spikes of the T-bolt. Also, the flange of the T-bolt will not allow a flush fit of the wing to the fuselage. Tightening the wing bolt could then crush the material of the outer surface of the fuselage (if balsa), which would tend to produce a "countersink" in the fuselage. The act of tightening the wing bolt will then be tending to extract the T-bolt from the wing.

I would have thought that a high rate of roll could produce a not insignificant centrifugal force on the wings.

cymaz23/09/2019 18:50:20
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Posted by bert baker on 22/09/2019 22:38:27:

The all up weight of mine is 10.4 kg

I haven’t been able to measure the c-g with wings on

will try this week to sort it out

You do appear to have plenty lead up front

However with my wings off mine balances level at the front of the wing tube Sleve in the Fuz

Mine is 9.76KG with no fuel. I’m surprised it’s lighter than Bert's seeing as I added 400g of lead.

bert baker23/09/2019 19:32:03
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Ill have to re weigh mine now

 

Show off

Edited By bert baker on 23/09/2019 19:42:07

Ultymate23/09/2019 19:56:56
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Posted by John Stainforth on 23/09/2019 18:25:56:

I would have thought that a high rate of roll could produce a not insignificant centrifugal force on the wings.

A high roll rate will also create a significant frictional load between the wing tube and it's mating tubes in the wings thus reducing any tendency for the wings to depart

john stones 123/09/2019 20:04:53
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Posted by Ultymate on 23/09/2019 19:56:56:
Posted by John Stainforth on 23/09/2019 18:25:56:

I would have thought that a high rate of roll could produce a not insignificant centrifugal force on the wings.

A high roll rate will also create a significant frictional load between the wing tube and it's mating tubes in the wings thus reducing any tendency for the wings to depart

I'll up my roll rates, safety first eh. face 1

bert baker23/09/2019 20:09:57
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The T nut is as per the instruction manual that comes with the kit

the flat head of the nut is against the Fuz side not the spikes,

It's the spikes that rip your fingers when fitting them

cymaz23/09/2019 20:18:25
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Posted by bert baker on 23/09/2019 19:32:03:

Ill have to re weigh mine now

Show off

Edited By bert baker on 23/09/2019 19:42:07

Just put only one wheel on the scales !

Gary Manuel23/09/2019 20:44:08
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Posted by bert baker on 23/09/2019 20:09:57:

The T nut is as per the instruction manual that comes with the kit

the flat head of the nut is against the Fuz side not the spikes,

It's the spikes that rip your fingers when fitting them

I'm struggling to understand what you mean.

Mine has regular T-Nuts on the wing side of the root rib. Wing bolts screw in from the inside of the fuselage.

Any chance of you posting an image of the relevant part of the instruction manual Bert?

P.S. My Glenns Cap has no lead at all and flies like it's on rails.

bert baker23/09/2019 20:51:49
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Nope cant do that ,

 The instructions  say you run the risk of loosing the blind nut into the win at the field if it comes loose

You will have to go to the Glens 30% cap manual and look at page 2 under the Aileron mass balance section

The nylon bolt is supposed to be fitted in to the wing

duno if min has lead it does have two c cell nicad packs

it flies well

as for the rest I dont care

I like it the way it is

it's much better than the genaeration one with one piece wing

 

Edited By bert baker on 23/09/2019 21:02:33

bert baker23/09/2019 21:17:50
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9cdeb0c9-bc55-4bac-aec8-a57a34cae1b0.jpeg

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