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No model Flying in the Cardiff area 3-5 Sep 14

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Dizz14/08/2014 12:21:17
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As is says in the thread title.......please see link for more information:

**LINK**

Pete

Chris Bott - Moderator14/08/2014 12:33:40
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Wow that is something we've never seen before!

How on earth will they communicate that to all operators of toy planes? and how will they police it?

Dizz14/08/2014 12:49:09
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Didn't we did have something very similar during the Olympics?

I guess that it will be publicised in the local media: not enough notice for the modelling press I suspect. They have made a start by feeding it to the BMFA and the info hasbeen published on the web site. Not sure what else can be done.

Martin Harris14/08/2014 13:14:42
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Well, MI5, Special Branch and the police will be able to relax now that any terrorist has been banned from flying his anthrax/semtex/old isotopes laden autonomous quad in the area.

This seems to be the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge to me - how is any additional danger posed by someone flying a conventional model from an established site? I hope the BMFA are doing a lot more behind the scenes than simply publishing advice of the restriction...

P.S. After reading the NATS circular, there might be a possibility for any clubs affected - an application for exemption can be made to the local Chief Constable - perhaps a reasoned approach might bear fruit?

Edited By Martin Harris on 14/08/2014 13:28:08

The Wright Stuff14/08/2014 13:54:25
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Posted by Dizz on 14/08/2014 12:49:09:

Didn't we did have something very similar during the Olympics?

Yes. Did you see 'James May's Toy Stories' about the R/C glider, which was being filmed at the same time? The original intention was to fly it across the English Channel. The comment broadcast in the show was something witty along the lines of: "unfortunately, we're not allowed to fly it across the channel, because someone is holding a running and jumping competition in Stratford...." Priceless! They flew it to Lundy in the end!

Edited By The Wright Stuff on 14/08/2014 14:13:36

Olly P14/08/2014 14:04:53
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The establishment of NFZ's are common over this sort of event, and for good reason.

The enforcement will be difficult but, anyone who flies in a 'threat profile' can expect to have a response.

This restriction is in line with the ANO requirements of flying of all descriptions and therefore legally binding - a shame for those affected but understandable given the nature of a NATO summit.

Martin Harris14/08/2014 14:22:15
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While I'm sure a terrorist flying a full size plane would be less likely to succeed with a no fly zone, and having a decent radar and visual profile plus either having to fly from further afield or take off from an existing airfield within the zone, the terrorist using a model could launch from anywhere with little chance of being observed - or reported.

Banning all model flying seems pointless and overkill - I haven't met a terrorist yet that faithfully abides by all laws and rules (not that I have knowingly met any at all!).

Olly P14/08/2014 14:28:52
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Martin - this is not the point.

The idea is to clear the 'air picture' this means that any assets conducting surveillance will know what aurthorised air traffic there is in the area and can ID it, and therefore anything 'other' is suspect and worthy of investigation.

I can't say much more but this is only done for good reason becasue it does actually cost a lot of money to do.

If you wish to discuss more please PM me.

Olly

Dai Fledermaus14/08/2014 14:47:18
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As I understand it all schools within a 40 miles radius of the Celtic Manor will be opening late and closing early, although those in Newport itself will be unaffected. The police will organise rolling road blocks along the M4. Only commercial flights will be allowed in and out of Cardiff Wales Airport during the summit.

Gaer Park and Cardiff MAC will probably be affected, there is also another club in Barry and another in Llandow close the Airport  and RAF St Athan which will suffer the same rescritions

All police leave will be cancelled and there is so much security fencing around the place, the guy who got the contract for that will be able to retire

Edited By Colin Ashman on 14/08/2014 15:15:54

Shaunie14/08/2014 15:49:19
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Although it sounds draconian I can see the sense in it for two major reasons.

1. As Olly says the air picture will be clear and they can assume that any small object picked up on the increased radar coverage could be a possible threat without having to look at a list of flying sites/times.

2. Any fast jets can use the area if necessary and are unlikely to end up with FOD due to a Foamy Wot 4 or similar.

What annoys me is its only a load of Politicians we are protecting, who needs them anyway? More trouble than they are worth as far as I'm concernedangry

Mowerman14/08/2014 16:06:54
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There were similar restrictions along the route of the Tour de France due to lots of media helicopters following the race.

Stevem3akm14/08/2014 16:09:10
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Yet more millions wasted,why can't they have their little bash at NATO HQ? Or is that to simple and cheap. Time to go back under the rock again. Steve

Steve Houghton 114/08/2014 16:11:46
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Well that affects me but then again it doesn't as I'll be in work anyway. It's a good job the summit isn't being held over the weekend as I would be very annoyed angry 2

Steve

A470soaring.blogspot.co.uk

Depron Daz14/08/2014 18:56:32
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Posted by Olly P on 14/08/2014 14:28:52:

I can't say much more but this is only done for good reason becasue it does actually cost a lot of money to do.

If you wish to discuss more please PM me.

Olly

I sincerely hope that you are not breaching the Official Secrets Act, Olly? cheeky

cymaz14/08/2014 19:15:15
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N.A.T.O

No Aircraft Til Over

John Privett14/08/2014 21:54:16
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Posted by Dizz on 14/08/2014 12:49:09:

Didn't we did have something very similar during the Olympics?

Yes, and no. The restriction for the Olympics differed in two rather important aspects.

Firstly it only applied to models over 7kg - this one applies to everything. Probably even to a paper dart...

Secondly it covers a significantly larger area. This covers an area consisting of two overlapping circles, each of 20 nautical miles (~37km) radius - ie. about 70km at the narrowest, 90+km at the widest. The Olympic zone was an odd shape, but roughly 70km across at the widest point, and 30km across at its narrowest.

John Privett14/08/2014 22:14:04
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Posted by Martin Harris on 14/08/2014 13:14:42:

This seems to be the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge to me - how is any additional danger posed by someone flying a conventional model from an established site? I hope the BMFA are doing a lot more behind the scenes than simply publishing advice of the restriction...

My concern too, Martin! What if somebody takes the view that our precious politicians in Westminster, or the royals, warrant the same measures?

A 20nm circle around Westminster wipes out a huge area including around 60 clubs/sites that the BMFA has on their club map. The area reaches almost down to Gatwick in the south, beyond Sevenoaks in the south-east, past Grays in the east, Harlow in the north-east (beyond North weald), to Welwyn Garden City in the north, Slough in the west and to the outskirts of Guildford in the south-west.

screenshot 2014-08-14 22.03.00crop.jpg

Martin Harris15/08/2014 00:52:44
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While I can understand Ollie's explanation, a clear air picture could include known model flying sites as the flight pattern shouldn't involve traffic straying more than a few hundred yards from them. What I'm objecting to is the principle of a blanket ban on a legitimate activity.

I wonder how widely the message will get to lone flyers and casual park flyers who are the people most likely to generate unknown traffic? 

I can accept that the CAA has every right to restrict flying of > 7kg models in controlled airspace at any time it sees fit - and they should not be being flown above 400 feet above launch height anywhere else anyway - but normally smaller models are exempt from any legislation except actually endangering aircraft or persons.

Correct me if I'm wildly wrong but I'm only aware of the Olympic ban on > 7kg models in the past - now just 2 years later, another (more stringent) ban has been imposed. The more these restrictions are allowed to go unchallenged, the more likely that more of them will be found to be "necessary" in the future - the wedge may get thicker very quickly...

Now a controversial suggestion...

Has the increased availability of UAV style Multicopters and FPV flying raised the threat profile of model flying?  Perhaps mainstream model flying should look at distancing ourselves from these activities if this is the case?

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 15/08/2014 08:39:56

leccyflyer15/08/2014 06:28:47
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Posted by Martin Harris on 15/08/2014 00:52:44:

While I can understand Ollie's explanation, a clear air picture could include known model flying sites as the flight pattern shouldn't involve traffic straying more than a few hundred yards from them. What I'm objecting to is the principle of a blanket ban on a legitimate activity.

I wonder how widely the message will get to lone flyers and casual park flyers who are the people most likely to generate unknown traffic?

I can accept that the CAA has every right to restrict flying of > 7kg models over 400 feet in controlled airspace at any time it sees fit - and they should not be being flown above that height anywhere else anyway but normally smaller models are exempt from any legislation except actually endangering aircraft or persons.

Correct me if I'm wildly wrong but I'm only aware of the Olympic ban on > 7kg models in the past - now just 2 years later, another (more stringent) ban has been imposed. The more these restrictions are allowed to go unchallenged, the more likely that more of them will be found to be "necessary" in the future - the wedge may get thicker very quickly...

Now a controversial suggestion...

Has the increased availability of UAV style Multicopters and FPV flying raised the threat profile of model flying? Perhaps mainstream model flying should look at distancing ourselves from these activities if this is the case?

Edited By Martin Harris on 15/08/2014 01:18:37

Edited By Martin Harris on 15/08/2014 01:26:02

Yes, yes it has and that has been pointed out no small number of times in the past. Those activities, if model flying does not distance itself and maintain clear blue water between model flying and such activities are quite likely to lead to severe curtailment of model flying -in the manner that has been seen in this announcement.

Terry Walters15/08/2014 07:45:10
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Posted by cymaz on 14/08/2014 19:15:15:

N.A.T.O

No Aircraft Til Over

LOL!!

How about NATO = No Aeromodeller Terrorist Opportunity

Come on people - this is a justified and necessary temporary blip in model flying freedom. More serious long term havoc is created by neighbours of clubs complaining about our activities. Lets accept that this is something which is necessary because as we know RC aircraft could used to attempt to commit atrocities. This way the 'authorities' are actually protecting our future. If one terrorist was sucessful then you can bet that there would likely be a blanket ban on all RC flying overnight. Let's welcome a sensible precaution which will affect those in the area for a short time only and applaud what security is being taken..

Anyone thinking of taking a soarer to the summit? wink

Terry

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